Can this be true?

**kryton9** · 08-01-2011, 13:31

This is so amazing that I wonder if it is true.

I wonder if the intelligence services put this story out just to play mind games with opposing players.

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/...pons_Ambitions

I had heard it was a virus, but can anything that complex really be?

**ErosOlmi** · 08-01-2011, 13:41

Yes I think it is true: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet

**kryton9** · 08-01-2011, 23:46

If true Eros, this virus is almost alive and intelligent to do all that it did to compromise the security. They said the computers were not on the web and that it knew how to move through so many systems undetected to be brought in from the outside. AMAZING STUFF!!

**Charles Pegge** · 09-01-2011, 01:36

One Year ago:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...llegation-west

**danbaron** · 09-01-2011, 08:20

This is just my opinion.

Assassins are almost always cowards.

And, those who send the assassins are double cowards.

The last thing they will ever do is engage the victim in a fair fight.

The politicians who give the orders, live in insulated wealth, are fawned over by the media, go home to their families, play with their children, and sleep well.

The state department in Washington dismissed the accusation. Its spokesman, Mark Toner, told journalists: "Charges of US involvement are absurd."

The U.S. state department didn't say "yes" or "no", right? It said, the charges are "absurd". What does that say to you?

-------------------------------------------

And, I find a similarity with cyber attacks.

For instance, when it would be too politically unpopular to just bomb a target, governments instead attack like invisible assassins, using an untraceable worm, and then denying any culpability. Who, with any brain cells, would believe the denials of any major government?

If you or I damage government property (either physically or electronically), the act is called terrorism, and if we are caught, we will be condemned by public opinion, and most likely imprisoned by the government for life.

If you or I kill someone, the act is called murder, and if we are caught, we will be condemned by public opinion, and most likely imprisoned by the government for life.

There is such a double standard, such a hypocrisy, between the acts of the individual, and the acts of the government.

I think that probably every major government routinely and secretly breaks the laws that it forces its citizens to obey. (The government can only secretly break its laws, because, if the people knew, they might wise up, and begin to think, "Why should the government be able to force me to obey the laws, which it breaks?".)

To me, when you see the head of any major government, you are seeing someone who is comfortable with directly or indirectly ordering the stealth killing of people, many of whom have harmed no one. To these politicians, "morality", is only an abstraction. To them, people are not more than pawns on a chessboard (the exceptions being themselves, and maybe their immediate families). Of course, the last refuge of murderous heads of state, is the phrase, "for the greater good", right? If the God of Christianity exists, then let them use that phrase when they plead their cases - do you think God would be impressed?, would be convinced?, would realize their misunderstood virtue? And if God does not exist, then, the enlightened human will live by the idea, "Nothing in all of creation is as valuable as my continuing existence and fulfillment. If all other life dies, and I survive and thrive, then, all is well.". Do you think? That is the kind of altruism which has permitted humanity to make it into the 21st century?

**ErosOlmi** · 09-01-2011, 12:13

Originally Posted by kryton9

They said the computers were not on the web and that it knew how to move through so many systems undetected to be brought in from the outside.

That can be a job from the inside.

Many PLC are LAN connected to the computers used to program or to monitor them. We have some in my company controlling automated machines. I had much more in my previous company used to control and verify automatic production lines, switching gates over the line and controlling robotic production.

Every system can be hacked. The only system that cannot be hacked is the one always turned off and without any form of energy.
Of course this is something very specific that only specialized people (but not so little) can know how to handle. It is not something that is always in the public but it is something very much used in many factories over the world and programmed more or less like any other device controlled by a software application.

**danbaron** · 09-01-2011, 13:22

From what I read, the system was breached because, workers unknowingly brought infected disks to work, and, connected them to the system.

I don't know if it is practical (probably it is possible), but it seems to me that it would be very difficult to hack a "sealed" system. It would not be connected to the internet. No external devices could be connected to it. It would have no slots into which to insert any data media. If the system was "clean" when it was installed, then, I think, there would be a good chance that you could keep it clean.

Data could only enter the system by sitting at a keyboard inside the facility and typing. In that case, malicious code could only be introduced by one or more of the facility's workers. And, in that case, they would have to sit there day after day at work, developing the code in plain view.

Beyond that, if you are worried that a compromised worker will, for instance, physically break into the system and somehow wire an infected device to it, then, I guess besides sealing the system, you could seal the facility. A worker would enter the facility once, live inside for the duration of his tenure, and then, leave the facility once.

**Michael Clease** · 09-01-2011, 23:55

Originally Posted by danbaron

This is just my opinion.

Assassins are almost always cowards.

And, those who send the assassins are double cowards.

The last thing they will ever do is engage the victim in a fair fight.

Strange comment considering your signature would indicate your of the same opinion as the assassin.

**danbaron** · 10-01-2011, 01:39

I don't think my comment is strange at all.

I assume you mean the quote I have from W.C.Fields.

W.C.Fields was a famous American, "comedian, actor, juggler, and writer".

He died on Christmas Day, in 1946.

He made a bunch of (in my opinion) great, funny movies.

The quote is from one of them.

You can check for yourself, and decide whether or not you think it is intended to be taken seriously.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W.C._Fields