To ISAWHIM

[Michael Hartlef]

Good morning ISAWHIM,

first I wish I would know your real name, that I could talk to you more personally. A tag like ISAWHIM can imply to many things. And sometimes can make bad impressions. Not that your tag does but it is kinda a weird one. ISAWHIM, who? God? The reason I post this here is to make you understand why you stepped on some toes here. How I see you is of course from my own view of how I interpreted your posts here but from PM's with other Members I know that their view is similar to mine.

So... why I don't "like" how you were "acting" here? In acting I mean the tone of your posts and what you wrote. I'll name some things in loose order. Maybe then you can understand why:


A) First, please take the appologize for any grammar and spelling mistakes I have in my post. English is not my native language. And so is the situation with 90% of the active posters here. So please, when you find a spelling error in the forum,

1) Try to find the appropriate forum section (most likely bug forum) to post your findings
2) Post it neutral, not in a negative or for you "funny" way. You think you might have perfect english but noone is perfect. And I know from former experience that europeans have a different way of understand english then americans for an example. Soime read between the line's some don't. Some have a difefrent humor, some have a different thinking about sexual stuff. And without knowing the people here it is easy to step on toes fast.

Please remember with everything, you are using a free product. Eros and Roberto and all the others who created modules for the users did and still do this in their free time, to help you and others without any charge.

B) If you had first introduced yourself here, then we would know you better. We would know a little of who you are, where do you comming from, what you want to use thinBasic for etc. We could value your posts differently. Right now I think you are a 16 yr old who heard something, try's to make himself superior and at the same time post things where you look like you don't know what you are talking about.

c) Mosts of your requests are very good and please don't stop making them. That is how thinBasic came to this state so far. Eros and all the developers are the last ones on earth who would not try to help you, if it fits in the total direction of thinBasic. Sometimes the request is denied but that isn't a personal thing. Anyway, it is the tone how you do a request.

Your tone was like "Hey, this is crap. It SHOULD go like this... bla bla bla!" It would have been much better if you have went like this: "Hey guys, I have an idea which could help thinBasic. It goes like this.... the advantage is...! Maybe it could help the other users too."

Your posts sound very negative and demanding. Again, allways think that this is all done here for free. And so the tone of your posts doesn't sound respectfull to the developers and what they have doen previously.

d) You try to come over as a very professional person and at the same time you downgrade the other users. That "TOY" discussion is an example for it. You said that the other users just play with, if they were professionals that should have made YOUR request a long time before. I found that very insulting as you don't know what I do with thinBasic and what kind of IT-Background I have. And so it goes for the other user here. I doubt that you took the time to read some of our introductions.

You allways have to remember that we all have different interests in thinBasic and use them for different projects. If you need a certain feature, ask nicely and maybe give an example and Eros and the others will see what they can do. Or help by devleopiung that feature and share it. You won't find any other programming language that develops features more on the base of user requests then on what the developer wants. Not Purebasic, BlitzMax, EBasic, etc etc. I was there and I experienced all kinds of behaviours and support forms. thinBasic and its community is completely different.

To sum it up

1) Don't stop requesting new features. Just accept that there might be no room for it or it is a busy time right now and it will be not developed right away. And do it in a nice way.

2) When you find something that is not right, please tell the people. But again, do it nicely. Eros and Roberto put so much work into this.
Of course things are missing and of cource there are bugs and false info. Nobody is perfect. Or are you? ;D Also some things are just supported in a minimalized way as no one had really use for it till now. If you need it, then things can be worked on more.

3) Don't compare thinBasic with Visual Basic. It's not a clone, it's not devleoped with it and has nothing to do with it besides that you use the Windows API to create your content.

4) The most important thing is.... Respect and show respect to everyone here. I don't mean that you have to kiss ass. But respect the work done previously and try to help make things better. Don't make it look like you are the only one who knows the things. That is what you most of your requests and bug topics were missing.

When you started posting i said to myself "Huhhh??? Who is this guy that he has the balls to talk like that? Is he a trouble maker or is it a strange way of helping the project. But then why is he downgrading the others here?"

Ahh one thing. You wrote this morning that nobody greeted you here. Well, if someone comes in your place, doesn't say hello, just says how shit things are. How would you react? By trying to ignore your posts you got the best reaction so far.

Last but not least. If you change your tone then I welcome you here because I think you could be a valueable member of this community. I hope I made myself clear athat it wasn't my intention to hurt you or downgrade you. I just try to paint a picture of how I see you. And how other people see you here.

Ok, now its up to you. It would be nice if you could asnwer to this as I would like to know whta you think about this.

Best Regards
Michael Hartlef

[ISAWHIM]

Why does everyone think "Isawhim" has something to do with god?

1-800-ISAWHIM is the number for America's most wanted (The hardest criminals. LOL)

The name was actually created when I drove a 50cc scooter from "Enfield, Connecticut" to "Jacksonville, Florida", over 1,500 miles in the dead of winter. http://www.isawhim.com/scooter

I am 32, and quite mentally young. (Like I said, I have A.D.D. {Attention Deficit Disorder}, which only rears it's head when I get completely saturated, and have to enter uncharted waters.)

I can not take back my comment about the "Toy"... I guess that is an American thing. My scooter is a toy, I drive it every day, it is my primary transportation, has been for several years. It is still a toy. (As opposed to a car, or as opposed to a high-structured program, funded by money and a staff larger than 2.) I don't mean any insult by that. To me, that is just a fact of the matter. It is powerful, and it does a lot, but there is a lot that it does not do. I don't know how to make that non-insulting, if you don't understand my perspective there.

I do admire all that it does do, all that it has the ability to do, and all that has been done with it. But I also see some things that others see, which they failed to provide any solution towards. They just "Demanded"... Ok, I need to work on my tact a little... Usually it is late, I am groggy, stress is high, and so is the frustration. (From my perspective, saying, "It is simple", is telling me I am an idiot because I can't figure it out. That is carved in stone, on the front page. It is an "Overly Zealous" statement, that belittles those who don't find it "Simple".)

Thus, my added frustration... Doubled by the initial, "Go here and figure it out", answer to my original problem. Not what I was expecting from a community... much less one of the main developers. (Who was one of the reasons I was here, because of the lack of publication provided. Not that I feel "HE" was responsible... but "HE", was one of the two reasons I was here.)

NOTE: "HE", helped me, and I thanked him. (But I continued, because I was asked another question.)

I have a million thoughts flowing around in my head 24/7... 1% escapes into the real world... the other 99% just keeps spinning around, waiting to free itself from the rusty tin-can that spin around on. I get diarrhea of the hands, when I first enter a new forum. Shit just pours out... All over the forums, until I settle into a nook. (And the panic attack wears-off, and I am here because I want to be, not because I need answers to my own problems. Unfortunately, it is an instant yin/yang situation.)

Seriously though... I do apologize. (I don't make good first, second, or third impressions... but if anyone is still around for the hundredth... OMG, I rule! LOL.)

If I was anyone important... I might care about first impressions, but I am more about getting what I need to continue. If I stay stuck for too long, my projects die. That is why I moved to PHP and JAVASCRIPT... I understood it better, it worked better, but it had major limitations when it came to file manipulation. (Worked great with anything in memory.)

On the opposite end, VB let me down, as they switched from partial object-style development, to full object oriented programming. They completely stripped out the BASIC, and puked out NET-CRAP. Each simple command is a whole dictionary of code, just to complete any simple task, or manipulate any data. Plus, it offered no advantages after VB6. Javascript and PHP was faster, less complex, and was well documented.

I know this is not a clone of VB... but it is the closest thing I have to it. (The best parts of it.)

You are right, in the end, I lived off API, and OCX, but there was a lot that I lived off of in the GUI. (Command buttons and windows are the two things I lived off of. Most of my code was 3D, or pure numerical data, or text-HTML, which I launched/viewed in a browser control, or in MSIE. But those buttons, listboxes, and comboboxes did all the work themselves. Each control had it's own series of events which had the appropriate code inside. This is reverse. All code/events are in one location, which threw me off. It was a new thing to learn, and I had no idea where to go to learn it.)

Ok, I think I have burned your eyes long enough...

I have traversed a good portion of the forums, and found better locations for half my posts, but it is my nature to ramble off topic. I can't help that.

P.S. Your English is fine.

[Michael Hartlef]

Thanks Jason, now I understood your thoughts. Yes, it's quite different when you come from tools like VB or Delphi. I love Delphi, which has the same approach like VB does. You get something visually quite fast and don't have to worry about the GUI much. But I also love languages liek thinbasic because you have almost 100% control of the code. Something that is hidden from you in VB/Delphi.
In a procedual language like thinBasic or others you rely on either 3rd party gui editors or manual coding. Sadly, thinBasic isn't supported by such a tool right now. 1.7 will have new functionalities that can be used for something like a gui editor but it is a fact that till now you need to rely on the thinBasic help file and knowledge of the windows API to get things done. If you can't feagure it out yourself, then please ask and I'm 100% sure someone will try to help you here.

[ISAWHIM]

Ok, I think I got most of my jerk-posts reduced to jerk-level-2... (I can see how some of the things I wrote, could have been read the wrong way. I think I got all of them. I left a little jerk in there, because it was "Quoted", and I am what I am. But I am not a troll. Not entirely.)

Ok, I am going to attempt to make one official suggestion, with the intent of getting direct input, without a dance.

[Michael Hartlef]

:D


I can see how some of the things I wrote, could have been read the wrong way. I think I got all of them.

Yes, you have quite a talent for that. Just try to be neutral for a while till the people get to know you better.

[ISAWHIM]

WOOT... I found something I am good at... ;D (Not sure if it is a talent. :P)