So how do you want to work on the game?

[Michael Hartlef]

Hi folks,

I would like to hear your oppinion about how you guys would like to work on the game. I mean, how do you guys imagine the process of the game being created. Would you dicuss every aspect of the game before actual work is starting or do you wanna just start hacking and see if something playable comes out of it? I think the reason why I ask this is that I'm not sure of what I can expect and if my expectations are maybe highter then what is possible with this project.

Michael

[ErosOlmi]

We are all programming lovers so one mistake we all tend to do is start coding after the first idea.
On the other end we do not like too much remaining weeks on paper to design applications and process while we would like to be able to see and touch something working.
So I suppose the best is in the middle (what a deep thought ;D )

I think we have to focus on what is really important for the game we are going to write, test, play.
What is really important to be cleared since the very first stages?

I can see the dev group has no problems in creating 3D models.
I can imagine there are no big problems in designing 3D tracks.
Free textures can be found in many places but if worth I can spend some $ for some specific one really needed.
The same for sounds. We have some talented people here.

So what?
If the game is a wipe-out kind game I think physics and collision detection is the most important.
How to get 3D models movements?
How cars (well, not really cars) interact each other, with the track, with the track morphology, with the forces (speed, weight, ...)?
How we can understand track path? Starting, finish?

Well, I think you got the point.
I'm really very bad in this field so maybe I see the problem bigger than what it really is.
I just wanted to share my opinion.

Ciao
Eros

[kryton9]

I think a big part will be physics. The vehicles moving in a predictable way that is realistic to the game and with cool reactions to events, such as bumps, turns, jumps and powerups.

Great sound effects for everything will be important too to add to the immersive quality.

Depending on how adventurous the team wants to get with tracks, this could be difficult to do really cool levels with reasonable polycount.

So I would guess these major points should be decided by the team before any hard work is started.

[Simone]

Hi,

Yes I agree with Eros and Kent, Physics it's very important in this type of game.
i think that the team have to decide how are the general rules of environment (like gravity, and the main vector forces that come into a game like races.)

for the collision we have to study a way to handle collision between runners and track. Tbgl has many features that can help we.

So the work it's hard but the team it's ready for it. ;D

Ciao,
Simone

[Michael Hartlef]

:-\

Ouch. 3 people of the team don't respond to my question over how they want to work. One said basically let's play and see. But the question wasn't if we should implement featureX and how you wanna see feature Z.

So I guess it will be like that then. Try and see if this team will finish something. I didn't post my oppinion at first because I had kinda that feeling that it would go like that. I think about game development in a more structured and organized way these days. I experienced the opposite to many times and sadly nothing came out of it. But guys, you can prove me wrong.

So, let's see what comes out of that. I committed myself to this the next 4 months and I stay to my word. Please let me know what kind of models you want to have and how they should look like. Maybe a paper and pencil drawing would be nice. Also please state if you need it UV-mapped and a texture should be applied. I also need to know the texture format. Face count would be appreciated, unless you want me to go wild on the model. As I said I would make some music for the game, how about some mazedonian folks songs and I think some good old chinese tunes would really fit well into the game. I'll start working on this in an hour.

A possible developed game... a turn based WWI pod racer on sandy and dusty roller coaster tracks where you have to avoid the cannons of the napoleon fleet and at the end free the princess from the bored and frustrated newspaper boy. Right the sky and listen to old Luis Amstrong type of music and be aware of the mad easter rabbit who tries to suck your toes off with it's pink/purple rubber teeth.

Sorry guys, I needed let that out to cheer myself up. ;D Maybe I'm having a bad day, I don't know. Over and out.

[Michael Clease]

:-\
A possible developed game... a turn based WWI pod racer on sandy and dusty roller coaster tracks where you have to avoid the cannons of the napoleon fleet and at the end free the princess from the bored and frustrated newspaper boy. Right the sky and listen to old Luis Amstrong type of music and be aware of the mad easter rabbit who tries to suck your toes off with it's pink/purple rubber teeth.



I will have half a glass of whatever you had, I dont think I could handle a full glass ;D

Only reason I didnt comment was 3 people had said the same thing( roughly speaking) and I agreed with them.

OK, a couple of questions

1. how many people do you want working on the main game code?
2. how is the level going to be designed? and what format is the data going to be in?

[ErosOlmi]

Well,

I suppose real gaming software houses have a project leader for each game (or more) in place to define strategies, game characteristics, trying to keep to project on schedule, ... things like that. Maybe we need a leader that say what to do and how.
I would follow with pleasure my leader exactly as he/she drive me even if I do not agree. I can learn a lot and maybe next time I will be in the position to be the leader.

One of the boss I had in the past one time said: " ... you can always say what you think and I will be always open mind to listen to you but you have just 5 mins. After that time I WILL DECIDE". He was a great boss (Japanese boss).

[Lionheart008]

hi all:) dear michael, abraxas, eros, simone, kent, petr... and more...

- I love working with structure and a time limited fixed plan (plus-minus one day for ending the task...) - I can write down an idea of the game, build 3d models (I have some problems to find the correctly way the last days... but I have managed it!), make up my mind for a design paper, test the script and you will get feedback... no problem:) at all...

"WWI Podracing" or some kind of it we are starting to develop now needs a time for creating things, you are free to make mistakes and every here in the team needs positively feedback so you know all good and bad times with programming codes, build new guis or models or something else...

- some years ago I have worked for a little team creating models for a small animation, everybody has his personal focus to work with and needs time, but after four weeks the models, the animation and the structure of the story (I help to write it down) was made... first of all: a manager is necessary to lead the ship, one substitute, but don't forget, we are creating such good and interesting stuff in our free time ;)

- as you know, everybody has his precious free time and real life is important... Myself I cannot work a lot at week-ends... private things has priorities...

- I propose to work out an "timetable" with tasks for everybody here...
- after the end of the week we must meet us for a closer correspondence, what we have built, we have done a lot of things good or very good and constructive critics is also important... it's possible that for example I cannot build a model or a texture or environment for the game because of illness, stressy moments privately things, real life...
so you may be handle and care about this "thinStudio" team with a friendly, respectily behaviour... I believe, programming guys are very "sensible" like musicians or authors or actors... - we are all building new worlds ;D

last but not least: It's a time intensively work here only to read the post and reply it, I have undervalued it !

- first the idea, make it precise, distribute the work to thinStudio members... after a structured plan... I have time to take attention about the work in progress ;) and our "timetable" here... and I don't program intensively like you guys and have more a distance to the hot stuffs :)

nice afternoon, bye, out now, must babysitting:)

lionheart, run to the sun...

[Petr Schreiber]

Mike,

I know how do you feel, I am sorry I did practically nothing, I had tough week.
I will take pencil and paper and think about the topic. Once usable idea, I will publish it.
I am sorry, my head did not stopped yet, I simply had to combine too much things this week.

My idea is to put deadline for creating game design document, and since that date we would just code and debug.
We could code just little concept scripts to test whether idea is realisable or not - like developers of Spore did.


I am sorry,
Petr

[Michael Hartlef]

Mike,

I know how do you feel, I am sorry I did practically nothing, I had tough week.
I will take pencil and paper and think about the topic. Once usable idea, I will publish it.
I am sorry, my head did not stopped yet, I simply had to combine too much things this week.

My idea is to put deadline for creating game design document, and since that date we would just code and debug.
We could code just little concept scripts to test whether idea is realisable or not - like developers of Spore did.


I am sorry,
Petr


Petr, don't be sorry. Everyone has stuff to do. I just wanted to know how this project should be running. I know now. It would be real shit if I would go on like before and you guys have total different views of how to create such a game. So don't feel sorry. Nobody got hurt, nobody got killed. It is just for killing some time in a nice way. We do it the old TopDown way.

[kryton9]

We got many threads about the game with no direction really in my opinion.

I think it would be great if Mike put down some ideas before we start cranking out stuff in a random manner.
I don't think we can get very far going as we are going.

Questions that need addressing as it would be the foundation for future things:

1. Multiplayer or Single Player?
2. If multiplayer, Internet play or LAN play?

Another question would be type:
A. Story Based
B. Team Racing for a trophy
C. Best Time and Bonus Points Arcade style
D. Free for all deathmatch type race?

Once these are decided on, then perhaps Mike, Petr, Eros and others involved in story, structure can come up with a plan and then assign what is needed to each of in the team depending on what they signed up for.

[Petr Schreiber]

Hi Kent,

nice points. I just do not like the Singleplayer OR Multiplayer division :)
If you have nobody online / nobody wanting to play with you the game become useless in case of Multiplayer only.


Petr

[Michael Hartlef]

First, when I say YOU, I don't mean Kent alone. I mean everyone. And if you ask yourself, why I have a problem with the current situation; I really wanna try to finish a decent game. I would be upset if it looks like we did not try and just played around. Then I would feel like I waisted my time here. We had a similar thing here with TopDown3D. Promising project, but ran dead when people got sidetracked and did other things.

So let's answer Kent's post.

Yes Kent, that would be nice. And as you noticed, I allready had asked questions. A very few were answered on topic. I called out for generic code which I know will be used in a game. Till today I don't know if someone is even working on it. I asked for a story. Nothing. A story sets the mood of the whole project. It's basically pushing the start button. Even if you don't have a campaign mode inside the game, it will help and guide the artists to come up with ideas for the artwork. The coders and designers will use a story to come up with ideas about the game modes. But someone has to do it. I can do it too but would like to concentrate on media. I allready try to organize this here too. We have a very short time frame. 4 months is not much. 4 months for designing, building, testing. With Airdogs I set myself 3 weeks. And there I used 3rd party media (besides the title screen and the menu). The goal was set very low. Bascially no testing. Very little feature set. And that in 3 weeks after work and family. Me alone. I think we want to create a nice features game, or? Or do you guys want to create an interactive model viewer? We have 5-7 people here who want to actually work on the game. That is some good man power here.

Some things depend on other stuff. If we don't plan things then imho the result will be looking like the idea where Abraxas asked me what I was drinking. If there is any result that you can call a game. Just look at Topdown. Lots of ideas but it was very far from being a game. At least in my oppinion. I spend so much time in the art work and it still hurts that this time is basically lost.

I know everyone (including myself) have other responsibilities. And they are comming first. But everyone committed to certain arrays of this project. If you don't have time right now, then please just say so and the others are not waiting for you and someone else will try to do it. If you think I put your name in the wrong category of the team profile, then please say so.

I had started a design document as work. A lot of things would go into it and it would be a guide where everyone would see what has to be done. Because of that I started to ask questions. Wanted to get the discussions going. I asked for starting on certain generic code where I know 100% that we need them. For me, nothing much was talked about. So why I should go on working on it. Waist my time? You could say that I kinda took the steering wheel at first. But maybe I asked for to much. You guys are not me, I'm not you. Maybe I just have to work harder if I want to get it like I would like to see it. I don't know.

IMO creating a game in a team needs determination, stamina and the will to push yourself. It needs an organized way of the process.


We got many threads about the game with no direction really in my opinion.

Well, I put out threads about generic code, game modes, story and track implementation. Things that are independant and things are needed first. If think it is better to discuss all these certain areas in just one topic....

I'm sorry if you feel insulted or that I pissed on your shoes. And I didn't mean to hurt anyone, because I like you all here alot. I just wanna have a clear picture of what this be all about. If we really want to make a game I'm willing to put 120% into this. If you guys just wanna play then I'll create some models and put my efforts into other stuff.

[kryton9]

As a team we picked the game, but I think a team needs a leader. Since games are pretty complex things and it does take time to really make something interesting, I would like to nominate Mike as Project Leader. He has the skills in all areas and I think this project could get going nicely with his guidance.

Mike, just think of what is doable and give us some direction on what you need from us and the steps you would like to take.

Don't feel you are alone in this. It is easy to get that feeling with the amount needed to make a good game. We have great people here, once the project gets some legs it will move along smoothly I am sure of that.

[Petr Schreiber]

I am already thinking of Mike as project leader,

because I want this game finished and I know Mike will push as towards this for sure.
I think Mike already gave us directions - we have "jobs assigned" for example.

I agree with Mike/Abraxas we should decide for story and setting ASAP ( first! ), as it determines the behavior and look of the rest ( model look, environment look, game mechanics ).

Do not think I feel no pain when thinking we did not finished TopDown.
So from my side - I want this finished, not just see what happens.


Petr

[Michael Hartlef]

Mike=Michael Hartlef or Mike=Abraxas?

[Petr Schreiber]

Mike as that guy whose avatar shines on me from the post above ;D.

I know I discriminate poor Abraxas, but as you are first Mike I met here, I use Mike to reference you usually, and Abraxas as Abraxas :)


Petr

[Michael Clease]

I dont care that psch doesnt want to use my real name :P, important thing is that when someone types Abraxas I know its going to be me and not someone else that they mean.

I really wouldnt have the time, possibly, I never know what I am doing from one day to the next with my job, monday could be in the office and tuesday I could be at the other end of the country.

But if Mike wants to be project leader he gets my vote.

[kryton9]

Mike = Michael Hartlef. I will use Abraxas from now on to avoid confusion too.

[Michael Hartlef]

Ok, I rather sit in the second row too and take orders but it seams that I allways get into this role. I'll take the project leader position as a good amount of the team wants that. Now oyu have someone to blame at the end. :P :-[

Thanks for your encouragement and again, I'm sorry if I was harsh at the beginning of this topic. But I can't help it, I think it pushed oyu guys even more.

[kryton9]

Thanks for accepting the position as team leader Mike. You have done a great job so far and I think this project is on a great start.