Basic Compilers

[John Spikowski]

I'm thinking about setting up the Basic-Compiler.com site (old BCX forum) as a blog to discuss BASIC compilers in general. My thought is it would be a good way to help define what todays BASIC user is looking for in a language. I really don't think BASIC is going away soon and it will continue to reinvent itself. If you think this is a good idea, I would be interested in hearing your ideas for the site.

[SteveOW]

I am always interested in free and open conversations about Basic and similar "uncurly" languages.


I am having lots of fun with "Browser-based Basic" these days (http://www.zen226082.zen.co.uk/).


As an example of recent evolution I have just come across a neat little tool called PhysGL (http://www.physgl.org/) which provides a simple (browser-based) Basic front end for students to produce simple 3D models and animations.

Ideas for a site?
Not sure really. I think your AllBasic forum is meant for serious language developers rather than casual users and hobbyists(?).
Are you focussing mainly on Basic's which compile rather than interpret or translate?
I wonder if there is really a distinct category of users who really care about compilation in itself as opposed to caring about certain benefits (performance, stability, concealment, ...) which might be offered by other means.

I would be interested in seeing a website dedicated to Basic-type languages. It might just be a minimalist portal pointing to other sites. It might have a forum. It might have one or more editors and occasional/one-off contributors. It might have bloggers. It might conduct occasional surveys. It might archive various live and fossil examples of Basic. It might even attempt a definition of what Basic is.
For sure it would need someone with special qualities to keep it going (passion, dedication, ...).

Maybe such a site already exists? I looked on wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BASIC) but it doesnt mention any such site.

Ciao for now.

[Charles Pegge]

Can we use the existing AllBasic site for this purpose?


http://www.allbasic.info/forum/index.php

[John Spikowski]

Can we use the existing AllBasic site for this purpose?


The AllBasic.info site is trying to be a site catering to BASIC developers (compilers, interpreters and translators) and those interested in helping those projects move along. It's not for users interested in developing games or custom applications using BASIC. For example Rene would be someone that would be classified as an advocate for thinBasic and would be welcome to join.

Since there is no $$$ involved, competitiveness among languages should be gone. This is about a bunch of guys that love BASIC helping each other out making each project a little bit better.

Both you guys are members of AllBasic and to get things going you need to post. I have done my part. Eros needs to (re)join as well. Gordon (RTB author) is a member and will be joining us shortly once he catches up with real life. (self employed consultant)

The basic-compiler.com site is still an idea and nothing cast in stone yet.

[kryton9]

As I read through the posts in this thread a wild idea popped into my head.

I am sure by now you guys have heard about kickstarter websites, places where projects submit their ideas for funding and from there develop hardware or games etc.

Anyways, I think the biggest problem with BASIC right now is lots of talented programmers working in their own worlds and not sitting together and working towards one superBasic.

Perhaps the new site could be about setting up a wish list for the dream BASIC, probably would be 2 of them, interpreted and compiled unless it is possible to come up with one language
that could offer both options somehow? No need to go on about specifics the main thing is perhaps a site to unify the BASIC developers into producing and documenting a new BASIC
for the coming decades and technology that is cross platform.

[John Spikowski]

I'm putting my money on O2 as the next BASIC compiler worth using.

The All BASIC Developer forum is assembling as a group of developers and participating advocates to unify BASIC. You should join.

[zlatkoAB]

is there a united linux - no
same thing is with basic dialects
(of course i would like to see such a thing,but this is a Sci-fi)

[ReneMiner]

The basic I dream of: syntax and possibilities (built-in 3d-library, cool core that allows abstract usage) of thinBasic - visual management/modular scope of classic vb - built-in JIT-compiler as oxygen that can be abused to interpret tB by falsificate gl-function-declarations - I'm willing to pay 150€ or $200. But I fear- Eros will be faster - and I have to pay nothing but my weird ideas :D

[ErosOlmi]

I've removed some posts from this thread because off topic and of personal ... "taste".
Next time I will remove the users.

If you do not have anything interesting to post do not post anything.

[John Spikowski]

Sounds like a good formula for a successful exchange of computer related topics to me.

Thanks for taking a stand!

[ReneMiner]

... probably would be 2 of them, interpreted and compiled...

I honestly have to admit - I do not care if interpreted or compiled. Computers of those days are fast enough - so user will not feel a difference. I think the interpreters could overtake - because their powers are in interpret any stuff to computer-code- even thoughts. And interpreters are more flexible anyway. So my bet is- interpreted languages will be the future. Humans always will make mistakes - a compiler would never forgive these - a smart made interpreter could even make 35 to 16 just by interpret 35 = XVL, lcase$ = xvl - "mismatch type lower case error - you can't be serious..." - xvi = 16 -> means in the end: interpreters are smart enough to search for alternative solutions - while compilers just will spit out : ERROR -

The basic of the future will understand real human language - other languages are not capable of this. Speech-controlled computers will always have to go through some interpretation-process - and they're capable of finding a sense in the entered code - while others just will throw "Error" out because of lacking flexibility in thinking.

[John Spikowski]

Rene,

You make a good point. Users of the software we build applications for expect more and want it for less. I was hoping to be retired by now and making programming a hobby. Thanks to the Bush era and the greedy real estate / financial markets, we almost revisited the depression of the 20s. We are seeing a change in our industry like no other. Buckle up and be prepared for the ride of your life or you can put your head in the sand and ignore the changes going on around us.

John

[kryton9]

Rene, in the passed year I had been tinkering with micro-controllers and the one I have you write the code in C, compile it and then send it to the controller. There are micro-controllers that run off of other languages and even some that run off of BASIC, so I don't know if they compile or are interpreted.

My opinion is that the tech world is changing too fast for a single developer to keep up and even for some companies. Short recent examples:

In the USA, we have 3 major cell phone companies: Verizon, AT&T and Sprint. Sprint bet on Intel's WiMax technology, do you guys remember that how much it was touted and how would change the world of wireless. 30 mile radius from each tower coverage and with a name like Intel behind it. Well that didn't pan out. Sprint is now struggling and working feverishly to go with 4G LTE.

Now Verizon has the biggest and oldest 4G LTE system, but now it is dated and can't provide the speed that AT&T and now T-Mobile can with their smaller but newer 4G LTE systems. We are talking investments of Billions of Dollars and I am sure lot of effort went into planning these systems, so technology moves like water down a mountain and you have to be nimble to follow the correct flow.

A very cool innovation that is going to change the world besides 3D printing is Samsung's Youm Displays. The mobile devices we have plenty of power to do what we need, the biggest problem is display size and power usage of that display on battery life. Well that is about to change with Youm (http://www.oled-info.com/samsung-youm). Soon we can fold open big screens, roll out big screens from our mobile devices. This will pretty much kill the desktop for the vast majority of users. What will these new mobile desktop sized screen devices run on?

Microsoft RT is being dumped (http://www.electronista.com/articles/13/07/18/microsoft.facing.uphill.battle.with.windows.rt/) by Lenova, and now Windows 8.1 not RT version but desktop version for the Asus (http://gigaom.com/2013/09/12/meet-the-349-asus-transformer-book-t100-with-windows-8-1-good-luck-surface-2/) tablet/notebook device for $349 what will that do to Android?

So the world is changing at a fun furious pace and those of us who want to code need to develop in a language that to be safe has to be cross platform based foundation just to stay flexible if nothing else.

On another note: I have spend a lot of time studying the new C++11. Lots of improvements, big pushes are being made to make modern vast libraries to support the new standard. All sounds great. But in looking at some of the new library code, it is like they are going out of their way to make it an eye sore to match old c code.

The popularity of Python and Ruby stem from the non brace syntax look, vast libraries and their offering powerful data structures and algorithms that are easy to use and are cross platform. We need a BASIC to offer the same but with the performance of at least c++ to bring sanity and save our eyes at the same time.

[ReneMiner]

Might be it all changes too fast. On the other hand I would say, stuff changes and evolutes with peoples needs.

I don't think it would work out if a few programmers launch a new language just in mind to create the best basic of the world based on their current knowledge and old ideas - therefor it should go new ways and start to focus at founding a new core instead of repeating and combining essentially outdated steps which is known as behaviour of people who try to bring the good old times back.

Nature sorts simply: the accommodative survive - the inadaptable will die out.

The programming language of the future is os-independent - that's for sure. By that I mean really independent - run from any media on any modern hardware and might just smart out all current os-bindings. Remember times when it was possible to boot some software from a disk directly - without the need to startup something like windows or linux in advance? I think a modern way would just leave those dinosaurs that have literally taken over our hardware at the roadside and access the full hardware-powers which get currently apportioned by the goodwill of some os. I remember Bill Gates said once there will always be MS-Dos - and I think there are a few smart programmers out there who could create such thing as a 64 to 256-Bit-Version and just the idea is probably the worst nightmare of a few companies. If I would start to develop the worlds best programming language - I would start here at the base, some place where my language does not depend on some os that might die some day - to make sure it can survive.

[kryton9]

There are many things that you wonder why they don't exist or work in a certain way. There is a lot of room for innovation that is for sure.

One notable case is Linux. It had been around awhile now and although everyone was touting it back in the day it never became what it could have been.
Fragmented community, not very helpful to new users and always something that doesn't work (hardware). It is like MS-DOS days in many ways.

Then came Mark Shuttleworth, brought the world Ubuntu and all of its popular derivatives and now he and others are bringing a new graphics subsystem
with the rest of linux world screaming and crying to leave their beloved X alone, but Mir was long in coming and if left to the linux crowd would never come.

But now nVidia and AMD(ATI) are willing partners to write driver support for the modern Mir system (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Nvidia-and-AMD-to-Provide-Support-for-Mir-Says-Canonical-363955.shtml). That will offer Linux a big boost having true graphics support
but why couldn't Linus Torvald see that and propose this himself instead of giving the middle finger to nvidia ? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYWzMvlj2RQ)

Don't get me wrong linux overall is intriguing but too many years, even coming on decades have gone on without real progress until Ubuntu.

I know if I had money, there is still so much that the world needs that we are not getting, so for any young entrepreneurs out there, don't feel all the great innovation has been done and nothing left for you. There has never been so much opportunity!

[zlatkoAB]

This is just proof that Linus is selfish and ignorant freak who don't know how to built
GUI subsystem inside kernel
OR he have hidden reason why he refuse to do this.

[ErosOlmi]

zlatkoAB please.
I just said few posts before I would have acted when offending posts.
Do not oblige me to maintain what I said. You can say exactly the same in another way.

If the intelligence of any of us would be at least 10% of the ignorance of Linus Torvalds, we all would be genius.

[John Spikowski]

If the intelligence of any of us would be at least 10% of the ignorance of Linus Torvalds, we all would be genius.

Of The Day.

The dude has earned the right to say whatever he feels like without the fear of negative karma.

[zlatkoAB]

sorry Eros.
but my reaction have nothing against anyone here,right?
And i really don't believe that Linus is that smart as you say .
If he really smart why he cannot create better OS then is now ,and he think that people
from Nvidia are some sort of losers.

[John Spikowski]

You still don't get it do you Aurel?

You have not used Linux or know anything about that topic. Why do you always trash things you know nothing about? It only makes you look like some angry kid with a chip on his shoulder.

Per Eros's request: If your don't have something intelligent or interesting to say, keep it to yourself or you're no longer welcome here.

[John Spikowski]

Why Linux is the future of gaming (http://www.zdnet.com/valve-ceo-why-linux-is-the-future-of-gaming-7000020735/?s_cid=e539&ttag=e539)


Gabe Newell, CEO of Valve declared that proprietary software and closed platforms are gaming's past, its future is open and on Linux.

You can only ignore Linux for so long. Those who wait until being forced in that direction will be left behind.

[zlatkoAB]

You have not used Linux or know anything about that topic. Why do you always trash things you know nothing about? It only makes you look like some angry kid with a chip on his shoulder.

Per Eros's request: If your don't have something intelligent or interesting to say, keep it to yourself or you're no longer welcome here.

Who tell you that i don't use linux ?
Do you dream something bad last night maybe?
I use linux of course and for your information i have built my own personal version of Slax.

And why you constantly trash Windows,PowerBasic,Microsoft ...haa
so i think that you are not welcome here....
but who care ...i like from time to time read your overloaded sub-poetic /half-delirium posts..:D

[Michael Hartlef]

*** patience ***


ohmmmm

Eros, I can't hold it much longer.

[Michael Hartlef]

Zlatko,

please ignore the troll. You feed him with your response. If you want to put him on the ignore list, you can now as his former moderator status was removed :-)

[John Spikowski]

Eros,

Please remove my membership here.

This is the last time I will stand for someone calling me a troll and especially by some Super Moderator that comes out of the woodwork and becomes our new dictator.

I would still like to see you join the All BASIC forum where adults with a brain tend to hang out.

John

[Michael Hartlef]

Cool.

Topic locked as there is not much to add to.