Agri Bot

[Charles Pegge]

http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/articles/swarm-bot-farm-825x555.jpeg

http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2012-06/future-agriculture-swarm-farmbots-can-manage-field-plant-plant

[danbaron]

(To me, robots, and technology generally, have great potential, both good and bad.)

My observation is that, as technology advances, so does the concentration of wealth.

Now I think I am beginning to understand how two-class societies function.

The upper class goes about its business, its only care being to increase its acquisition, while it concomitantly demonstrates that, to it, the lower class does not matter in the least.

And, the system is constructed so that, within it, the lower class has zero chance of preventing its continual further decimation.

[Petr Schreiber]

The swarms of robots are very popular topic today, I am curious if this application will prove to be usable and efficient.

I am looking forward to approach the authors will pick for robot hygiene after robots finish their work shift :) Even our robot operating in malls and similar environments collects lots of dust on its surface, in outdoor environment it must be even worse.


Petr

[danbaron]

I can only speculate about what the topic, "swarms of robots", is about.

My guess is it means the end of human soldiers.

Imagine thousands of autonomous soldier robots, "who" instantaneously communicate with the entire swarm, and who instantaneously calculate and initiate the mathematically optimal strategy for a particular situation.

Imagine a swarm of a thousand "fly" robots (like house flies) attacking someone - what chance would he have?

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I think that most likely, robots will evolve with humans as their model - what other model is there to copy?

A robot will be able to perform minor maintenance and repairs on itself.

For major maintenance and repairs, one or more robots will perform it on another of their kind.

Beyond that, maybe, a robot will be able to construct another one of itself.

Imagine if the "fly" robots mentioned above, could reproduce, escaped from human control, and became as common on the planet as real house flies --> just wonderful, right?

[Petr Schreiber]

Hehe,

if you have a chance to get it in bookstore, I can recommend "Invincible" by Stanislaw Lem.
I found it online here (http://www.warren-wilson.edu/%7Ejblocker/Lem/Stanislaw%20Lem%20-%20The%20Invincible%20%28v1.0%20htm%29.htm), but it is not very comfortable to read from screen.

This is a not very typical Lem's book, but definitely worth reading.
I like how Lem pictures robots in his books/novels - from funny guys to sad damaged "persons", definitely not a stereotypical view :)


Petr

[danbaron]

I looked, and I think I can read it from the screen.

It seems interesting to me.

Believe it or not, it was originally published in 1964.

(Since it was written so long ago, I wonder if the spaceships are powered by internal combustion engines.)

I'll try reading it.

And, I found it here too.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Invincible-Science-Fiction-Special/dp/0283979623/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1340253169&sr=1-1&keywords=stanislaw+lem+invincible

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Now to what I wanted to add.

My guess is that before long, robots will be connected to the Internet.

Then, how long will it be before a virus infected horde of agri-bots, attacks a town, and kills all of its inhabitants?

Nonsense?

Imagine the destruction that one robot bulldozer could do.

Or one robot military tank.

Or one robot military jet fighter.

Incidentally, I heard on CNN again tonight, that the U.S. and Israel jointly developed the Flame virus.

[danbaron]

I read it all, on the computer screen.

According to my editor, it has approximately, 2254 lines, 66885 words, 390410 characters.

I think, it's pretty long.

For a page with 100 characters per line, and 50 lines per page, which is a about the maximum for a 8.5 inch by 11 inch page, that would be approximately 78 pages.

Maybe I will comment on it after I reflect, am too tired now.

[Charles Pegge]

Hi Dan,

I wrote a clip-board speaker to help with reading large amounts of text from web pages. It works quite well in Vista using the 'Anna' voice. It should also work in XP which uses the 'Sam' voice, though it is considerably less refined.

Once it has initialised and successfully connected to the voice, it will say "hello". Then you can use it by copying any text into the clipboard then clicking anywhere in the coloured area. Click again and it will pause at the end of the sentence. Another click and it will start again. If you close it down, the voice will continue speaking till the end of the sentence. (beware texts that have no full-stops)

I found it took a few session before I could understand the voice clearly, which I suppose is only to be expected with computer speech. Anyway, I use it for almost every text I encounter, so see if it works for you.

Charles

PS: I wonder if it works well in other languages. Petr?

[danbaron]

I think, the story, "The Invincible", is good.

I do notice that some things I would have liked when I was, say, 14, I now find tedious, like, what I consider to be, the excruciating detail.

On the other hand, without the detail, I think almost any story could be told in one page.

There are, I think, some scientific errors and omissions.

Maybe that is why the this type of story is called science fiction.

For instance, I think it is impossible to travel at "almost" light speed and remain alive.

Your mass would become so great, I think you would suffocate.

Also, your heart would be unable to pump the great mass of your blood.

About the mechanical flies, they are described as being very simple, but, unless I missed it, there is no mention of how they reproduce.

Also, it is not clear to me how they communicate.

And, this is possible, for instance, in the case of ants (I guess, humans too), but, I know of no simple explanation - how can the intelligence of any individual be slight, while the complexity of activity of the group, is great?

I guess there is a difference between intelligence and complexity of activity - maybe as shown by the computer simulation, Life.

Also, it seems to me that Lem couldn't think of any profound ending to the story, so, basically, he just stopped it.

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The only difficulty I find with reading text on the computer screen, is that, and, for me, the book was an example, the lines of text may be very long.

Then, when you reach the end of a line of text, it can be a challenge to find the next line - you have to look too far, from right to left.

Otherwise, I like to read on the computer, rather than to listen.

But, I think I can see which way, "the wind is blowing".

In capitalism, everything is done to maximize income.

Therefore, the desires of the composite person are addressed.

In my opinion, the composite person, is relatively dumb and lazy.

That person has little imagination, and wants to listen and watch, not read.

So, how long before text on the Internet, is a dinosaur?

(Notice also, that, in order to use the Internet effectively, your connection must continually become faster. The only gain I see is for those who monetarily profit, from propagandizing the populace with, "more, faster, better". (Lately, I have thought about this. Why are sports stars worshipped like gods? Because, society has made them as wealthy as gods relative to the average person. In other words, in our current global society, wealth is worshipped, and, I think the reason is that, the average person has none and will never have any. But, he is brainwashed to believe by the capitalists, that all other goals are and should be subordinate to the pursuit of money.))

I don't include you in my negative assessment, Charles - I'm sure your talking text program is good.

(Somewhat, I can see in myself, that a person's circumstances affect his mood, which colors his outlook on everything. When a person feels he is powerless, he is likely to become depressed. Then, even things which are intrinsically neutral can seem bad. And, the person is likely to ascribe the worst outcome, to every conceivable future.)

[Charles Pegge]

My vision is somewhat limited, so I have a strong incentive to use text-to-speech, and on many websites the presentation of text is very poor. Text-to-speech is also good for proof reading, and you can take notes more easily, while long articles are being spoken.

Programs with long lines and lengthy symbol names are also a problem for me, which is why I suppose I prefer code in a more algebraic form. I would like to develop a text-to-speech utility for reading programs in a comprehensible manner. It would have a basic understanding of the syntax and structure of a program - so it could be used to proof read the code.

Charles

[danbaron]

Maybe one good thing in my life, is that I can still read the computer screen without any help.

Considering programs generally, I re-started playing pool at the beginning of this year, and haven't looked at one line of code since.

But, I'm pretty sure that won't last forever.

Considering trying to fathom other people's code, what is more unpleasant?

After a short time, I can't even understand my own code.

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Here are some other things I noticed about the story.

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It says in the story that the Invincible traveled to Regis III at near light speed from the home space station.

It says that after the expedition, the Invincible would return to the space station to make its report.

If, in fact the Invincible accelerated relative to the space station, almost to the speed of light, and also did so on the return trip, I think most likely thousands of years would have passed at the space station when the Invincible returned.

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It says the crew hibernated during the trip through space.

But, it mentions nothing about them intaking food or water during the hibernation.

I think, without food and water, they would die.

Even during hibernation, they still breathe, and their hearts still beat, so, they must intake energy (food).

Also, certainly evaporation would turn them into mummies if they did not intake water.

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Here, I think is an error which was never corrected, do you think it is too late?

First Rohan indicates that he has 75 feet of rope.

"For that he would have needed not seventy-five feet of rope but at least one hundred feet, as well as a few hooks and a hammer; but he had nothing of the sort. He was not equipped for a climbing expedition."

A little further he uses the rope to lower himself 120 feet.

"Some 120 feet below he saw a broad shelf from which, clearly visible, a barren hummock led downwards, rising above the stiff dead tufts of the black bushes. Unfortunately, there was nothing but air between him and the promising shelf. He looked up. He had traversed some 600 feet, perhaps even more than that. The violent thumping of his heart seemed to shake the air. Several times he blinked his eyes. Slowly, cautiously, he unrolled the rope."

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It seems, and I agree with this assessment, that, what constitutes life, "is in the eye of the beholder".

The characters in the story, and, I assume also the author, Lem, indicate that the land surface of Regis III has no life.

They do not consider the "flies" and "bushes" to be living.

I would disagree with that opinion.

I think Lem is implying that life is carbon based.

The flies and bushes are metal based.

To me, that difference doesn't matter with respect to what is living.

Who can define life?

To me, humans are just as much machines as, for instance, printers are.

The only difference being that of complexity.

Who knows? - maybe the carbon basis is the only one which machines beyond some threshold complexity, can be constructed from.

So, I guess, my question is, what, if there is any, is the dividing line between machines and life?

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One more thing.

Trips through space are like living in a biosphere.

Imagine trying to live in a big sealed glass jar, say, for a year.

Nothing, literally nothing, can pass into or out of the jar - no gas, no water, no food, no people, nothing.

Such experiments have been attempted on Earth, and, if I remember correctly, the results have not been great.

Of course, the people in the biospheres were not in hibernation, but, what do you think would be the result if a nuclear submarine remained submerged for a year? Would the crew be able to resist the impulse to murder? (I mean this only semi-facetiously.)

Actually, if again I remember correctly, the idea has been raised, that in long space trips, it would only require one suicidal/homicidal person to destroy the ship.

That would be a good story, wouldn't it?

Instead of a group of wealthy people and servants being trapped in a mansion with an unknown one of them killing the others one by one, someone unknown on a spaceship in deep space, would be trying to destroy it.

I guess the person could instead be murdering the others one by one, like in the mansion - maybe that would be better, more interesting.

I remember going to a movie, alone, one afternoon when I had nothing to do, now I see that it was in the summer of 1976, Murder by Death.

Maybe, it was the dopiest movie ever.

On the other hand, I still remember it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_by_Death
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_by_Death)

[danbaron]

I thought of something else concerning the hibernation of the Invincible's crew during its trips through space.

As I said above, even while hibernating (sleeping?), they still must ingest food and water.

Therefore, they must also defecate and urinate.

And, I think without a constant flow of water through them, a person's kidneys will fail.

I guess the details of reality are not so romantic or easy to write about, especially in a fictional story, but, they still exist.

I think the same would apply to Lem skipping over how, the very simple, as I think he described them, flies, reproduce.

[Petr Schreiber]

Hi Dan and Charles,

I am really sorry I react so late, I was for 5 days in the mountains, without electricity/internet/PC.

Dan - I really appreciate you read the text. It is indeed long, it is a book in the end :) I think Lem simplified some aspects of the technology to tell the story without going into much tech detail. I think he generally focuses a lot more on human mind and behavior in interesting situations - he is not known for technology based sci-fi stories. This is evident in his other books, such as "Solaris". He also doesn't usually explain all things which happen, which stimulates your imagination and makes you think about what you read for some time.

The "Invincible" is quite light reading comparing to the other books, but I still think it is quite enjoyable. I can see it realised as movie clearly.

The "errors" with feet distance could be lost in translation, I think Lem used metric units in his Polish original text, but it might be error indeed. I will try to find it in my Czech version.

Charles - thanks a lot for the proggie, sadly there is only one (1) "usable" speech synthesis for Czech language and that is commercial (the voice is called Eliška) and my free licence to IVONA voices timed out. Will try once I get new SAPI voices, but I think it should work okay.


Petr

[danbaron]

So, I guess, here we go with electronically hijacked robots and drones.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/07/drone-hijacking/all/ (http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/07/drone-hijacking/all/)