Italy financial worries

[John Spikowski]

*** deleted ***

[ErosOlmi]

Never trust news. They say what someone tells them to say.
Hour real economy is going quite well: unemployment is about 8.4%. We work more than people in other big countries but we are quite disorganized with a lot of bureaucracy.

Italy is also very different if you look at north or south of it:

where I live (north) unemployment is about 4.7% while in the south is quite higher
GDP in the north is growing by 2.5 while in the south is ... firm or even in regress.
Your questions:
almost all Italian debt is in the hands of Italians so what's the problem?
private saving in Italy is one of the highest in the world. Our banks are quite stable, they do not have bad Greece bonds. Greece bonds are in French and German banks, that's why they are very worried
Almost every Italian is proprietary of their houses and it is common to have more than one property house. Our real economy is quite strong.
if no-one knows how can I know? But I'm quite sure you also do not know about your country. Banks in the US and in the UK were the first to fail and the first to be saved and you are still paying millions to your bank manager using your government money (so your money)
No bank in Italy has been saved. Our Government never gave money to any bank. So who is positioned in a better situation?
Never forget that this crisis started in your side of the Atlantic ocean where "economy" is very often confused with "financial" and with "speculation"

Just one thought someone should explain to me: why earnings of real economy is taxed more than earnings made with speculation?
To me earnings made with speculation (read "markets") should be taxed at least 50%
Here in Italy (but I suppose it is almost the same everywhere) my real job is taxed 47% while if I make money with speculation they will be taxed 12.5% or so
WHY? WHY? Because this is a crazy world driven by speculators :mad:

On our Prime Minister? Yes, it is a problem now.
He had a big majority in the parliament but he didn't take advantage of that to improve organization making some of the many reforms we expect since ... many many years.
So to me he failed under every angle even from the sexual point of view because all over the world potent people make big sex but they keep it private.

[danbaron]

I think speculators should be sent to Devil's Island for life.

I know very little about these things.

But, I imagine it like this. Say, I am extremely rich, and, I think I am extremely smart. I get a great idea. I know that in order to live, people need food. I decide to buy all of the food. I offer all of the farmers 100% more than they are getting for what they grow. Soon, I own all of the food. Now, I wait. People begin to become hungry. I wait some more. People become desperate. Finally, I start selling my food, say, $100 for a loaf of bread. See, what a good business man I am?

And, in the future I hope to start investing in the commodities of water and air.

So, whether we want to or not, we are forced to learn something about the world economic and monetary systems, correct?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Concerning Italy, I heard that it is going to be sold to China, in order to pay off some of the EU's debt.

Then, some of the austerity measures in the remaining EU, can be reduced or eliminated, what do you think?

I mean, it's better to throw one person overboard, then for the whole lifeboat to sink - you can't argue with that, right?

:twisted:

[ErosOlmi]

Concerning Italy, I heard that it is going to be sold to China, in order to pay off some of the EU's debt.

Then, some of the austerity measures in the remaining EU, can be reduced or eliminated, what do you think?

I mean, it's better to throw one person overboard, then for the whole lifeboat to sink - you can't argue with that, right?


As far as I know, is the US debt that is held in China hands: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt
Maybe your news doesn't say this to you?

If Italy will sell some of its debts to China, or better, China will invest in Italy's future, it will show we have a future.
I would be happy if we will be bought by another country but I doubt: as soon as they will check our internal crazy organization, they will run away.

[danbaron]

I'm just joking.

I am in no way a nationalist.

I don't care if someone is from the Congo, Tibet, or Monaco.

I think an American would have to be crazy to seriously criticize any other country.

If I had no responsibilities, and I had the means to go, I would be gone - I see no good future here.

History shows that empires fall, by going bankrupt.

Rome fell, and almost certainly, America is falling - its remaining power, is military power.

I think, most people here don't know how much we owe to China.

Actually, probably the average person here, knows nothing about nothing.

Our corporate newscasters will continue saying this is the most wonderful place in the world, until the minute they stop receiving their pay checks.

As I see it, the current economic system is strangling the world, effectively, all activity is being choked off.

The only solution I see is to hit the reset button, cancel all debts and start over with an honest system.

I think that anything else just forestalls the inevitable.

[ErosOlmi]

I cannot agree more.
The only doubt I have is that such a RESET button exists.
Maybe a good RESET button can be a big natural catastrophic event (an asteroid or a super vulcano). Who will survive maybe will restart in a better way.

[LanceGary]

Never trust news. They say what someone tells them to say.
Hour real economy is going quite well: unemployment is about 8.4%. We work more than people in other big countries but we are quite disorganized with a lot of bureaucracy.

Italy is also very different if you look at north or south of it:

where I live (north) unemployment is about 4.7% while in the south is quite higher
GDP in the north is growing by 2.5 while in the south is ... firm or even in regress.

Your questions:

almost all Italian debt is in the hands of Italians so what's the problem?
private saving in Italy is one of the highest in the world. Our banks are quite stable, they do not have bad Greece bonds. Greece bonds are in French and German banks, that's why they are very worried
Almost every Italian is proprietary of their houses and it is common to have more than one property house. Our real economy is quite strong.
if no-one knows how can I know? But I'm quite sure you also do not know about your country. Banks in the US and in the UK were the first to fail and the first to be saved and you are still paying millions to your bank manager using your government money (so your money)
No bank in Italy has been saved. Our Government never gave money to any bank. So who is positioned in a better situation?

Never forget that this crisis started in your side of the Atlantic ocean where "economy" is very often confused with "financial" and with "speculation"

Just one thought someone should explain to me: why earnings of real economy is taxed more than earnings made with speculation?
To me earnings made with speculation (read "markets") should be taxed at least 50%
Here in Italy (but I suppose it is almost the same everywhere) my real job is taxed 47% while if I make money with speculation they will be taxed 12.5% or so
WHY? WHY? Because this is a crazy world driven by speculators :mad:

On our Prime Minister? Yes, it is a problem now.
He had a big majority in the parliament but he didn't take advantage of that to improve organization making some of the many reforms we expect since ... many many years.
So to me he failed under every angle even from the sexual point of view because all over the world potent people make big sex but they keep it private.

This article,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15429057

mostly agrees with the points you make, but suggests that italian debt may still be unsustainable.

Lance

[ErosOlmi]

This article,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15429057

mostly agrees with the points you make, but suggests that italian debt may still be unsustainable.

Lance

Yes, that's the point.
Italy is in trouble for the government debt and not for people debt.
It is strange and quite hard to describe but we see economy crisis only on the news and not in the streets (at least so far).

Debt is growing mainly not because we spend more but because of interests on the debts itself. We emits bonds to ask for money for paying interests of the debt creating more debt.
We pay just for the interest what other countries have as GDP. That debts was crated by "illuminated" politics almost during the '70 and '80

It is since when I was born that I hear that we have to reduce our debt.
Our current prime minister (Berlusconi), despite what’ ever one can think about him and his private life, is the first prime minister able to stop debt growing since many many years. All the others just increased our debt.

I think most of the Italian problem of this long lasted situation are related to two factors:
we see politic as a faith, as a religion.
Very few Italians are able to vote for the best people, all are recurring the same vote to the same people whatever they do (or better: they do NOT do)
When we will be able to give our vote people we think are best whatever party they are in ... maybe something will change.
our politics are genetically unable to take decisions and historically inclined to bad compromises (when they decide they decide for something god for them and not for the collecttivity)
Anyway: looking at current Italian situation, maybe we have to default in order to resurrect.

[ErosOlmi]

I hear the pope is considering moving the home office. :)

That is the only good news of the day.
His central organization is just one of the items in debt area.