View Full Version : The Polygon is dead
I have no idea how this works, but it sure sounds revolutionary... detail 100,000 times more detailed by polygon equivalent at today's high graphic cards output.
http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2011-08/video-unlimited-detail-graphics-tech-surfaces-again-still-wont-let-us-play-it
Petr Schreiber
15-08-2011, 08:08
Hi Kent,
it is interesting technology, I am subscribed to info from their side, and recently they sent me this link to interview:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/08/10/euclideon_unlimited_detail_bruce_dell_interview
I think they are doing something really interesting, but I wonder how they will fight for example with animation - even todays tens of thousands (if much) polygon models are usually animated on GPU, as CPU cannot compute fast enough for multicharacter scenes, now take this atomic approach - what kind of beast could move all these little elements and perform weighted bones animations?
But I keep fingers crossed for them, I like when somebody is not afraid to seek new ways.
Petr
since Euclideon (http://www.euclideon.com/) Receives a Commercialisation Australia Grant of $2 million, so i think it is real.
Nvidia and others must feel danger from now. some points i feel of value from the articles:
their method are top secret and the only info is that they are creating a search algorithm that will result in 3D images with vastly higher geometry , Unlimited Detail's method is very different to any 3D method that has been invented so far
(a very little) more about the search algorith idea here: http://unlimiteddetailtechnology.com/description.html
The Euclideon approach is one of creating more efficient processing and is not about throwing more power at old technologies
Bruce’s unique approach to 3D graphics has come about due to his isolation from the rest of the industry
He was not professionally educated in 3D graphics
and all of his employees mentioned that they had to go through a steep learning curve to grasp the alien approach to building 3 dimensional world "Bruce Dell style."
I saw that video when it was being promoted on YouTube about a week ago, apparently the designer of Minecraft doesn't think the technology is as ground-breaking as it seems. You can read why in this (http://notch.tumblr.com/post/8386977075/its-a-scam) post on his blog.
Charles Pegge
15-08-2011, 13:43
This was a very exciting presentation but I am mystified as to how it could be possible to process all that data. 1 million pixels @ 20 frames per second -> 50K CPU cycles per pixel --> 25K Assembler -> 2.5K lines of C code. This has to cover data search and decompression, light and shadow calculations, among many other operations. It is a very tight budget.
Charles
Petr Schreiber
15-08-2011, 15:44
Charles, although they are laughing at polygons, I still presume they do the calculation on GPU with tens to hundreds "simple cores". On CPU, even multicore, I cannot imagine something like this (but fact is my knowledge of low level optimizations converges to 0 lately). That is why I think graphic card manufacturers might not be scared, as Zak suggests. Luckily, for some years already the GPU hardware is not fixed function, so general calculations can be performed using high level code and output bound to both OpenGL / Direct3D memory objects, eliminating the unpleasant travel from GPU to main memory and back.
Matthew, - I agree on the animations, it was also first thing which occurred to me. But... maybe this is not a show stopper. I remember playing beautiful game called Outcast, where environment was ~voxel based, and characters polygon based, and it looked and worked nicely (please note the game is from 1999):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/68/Outcast_screenshot.jpg
Petr
I seem to remember talking to you before about Outcast because it used voxels but I can't seem to find the thread on the forum. Anyway, Jon Carmack made this (http://twitter.com/#!/ID_AA_Carmack/status/98127398683422720) tweet two weeks ago about Euclideon, he seems to think it will be useful in a few years when hardware is more powerful.
Charles Pegge
15-08-2011, 19:19
Hi Petr,
In the interview, I remember him saying they did not use CUDA and GPU processing. They had not even optimised the software for speed yet. There was no mention of Opengl either. I am not surprised that their claims are treated with suspicion in the game design community but I think they have some very smart software going.
Charles
I am really excited that an alternative path is out there. I always love new ideas and out of the box thinking. I think the way GPU's are designed and wisely so as Petr mentioned that they can be adapted to use this technology.
updated my post:
Petr's link also as a very nice long interview video, I am watching that and it addresses a lot of the questions we are having.
Here is a new demo out. It will blow you away.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUXsep0egj0
OpenGL and DirectX will be history soon. They are talking about an SDK going to developers soon, not in this video but somewhere else I read.
It looks good but I wonder how effective it would be rendering graphics for a game like Battlefield 3 at 60 FPS?
Maybe the Xbox 720 and PS4 will be able to run it at a reasonable rate. :-)
Just imagine this technology with Disney's The Dish. Now that will be really incredible!
http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2012/04/whats-the-dish-at-walt-disney-imagineering/
Oscar Ugolini
09-09-2012, 09:27
those videos are posted 1 year ago... and the site tell... "official website launching soon..."
mmmh
when i will see a demo "playable", move and interact, i will believe...
i think it's only a software for hi-res presentations... :(