What is the cause?

[Charles Pegge]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8690338/London-riots-breakdown-of-Monday-nights-violence.html

[zak]

the bbc reporter said that the youngsters coordinates their actions using cell phones , and may be facebook and other social clubs. i think the web clubs and the ability for huge crowds of youngsters to make conferences are responsible . the youngsters in general are angry and the more easier communications between them will make them arrange for big gangs over the whole globe and to cause huge destruction, and what happened in UK can be happened in other countries. this is what will force more control over the web.
also we must not forgot the strange case of norway killer.
a theory wich i believe 10% is that the volcanoes eruptions last year contains neuro active elements, which affects the brains of the people in the whole globe and begins to behave in an unpredictable way. or what if Dr. WHO insert that tiny elements in the Iceland volcano to govern the world ?

[danbaron]

We've heard about the riots here, but no analysis.

My speculation:

What do young people do when they feel frustrated and hopeless about their futures? It seems that they are lashing out at the system which they feel has resulted in them having no opportunity to ever secure an adequate, reliable supply of income, so that they feel their lives are (or at least will become) worth living. It seems to them that the system ignores their plight, intentionally makes them invisible to the society.

I think that riots generally occur when the disparity in wealth and opportunity in a society becomes too great. When people are unhappy and feel hopeless about their futures, and feel that it is impossible to change the system, they will often band together and try to disrupt the system. This is especially true when they see that members of another class live lives of indulgence and luxury, without having to expend any effort whatsoever, and that many or most in this upper class have abilities less than their own. They feel that the only possible way to gain anything is to cause the system so much trouble that it can no longer afford to ignore their grievances.

History shows that unjust systems only become more unjust without the oppressed joining together and refusing to obey them.

I think that this is no mystery.

Frederick Douglass (1818-1895) quotes:

http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/18943.Frederick_Douglass

"What to the Slave is the 4th of July?"

http://thinkexist.com/quotation/power-concedes-nothing-without-a-demand-it-never/1273306.html

“Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.”

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Additionally, the greater the number of people who act together against the system, the smaller is the percentage of those people that the system can successfully punish. People are not hopelessly stupid, they realize this fact.

In this country it has become apparent that a particular law will only be enforced as long as the number of people disobeying it is smaller than some critical mass. Once that critical mass is exceeded, the enforcement of the law greatly diminishes. We see that here with respect to illegal immigration.

[jack]

I think it's basically rebelliousness, pure and simple.

[danbaron]

http://www.counterpunch.org/austin08092011.html

August 9, 2011

Inside the Tottenham Uprising

London's Burning

By HAL AUSTIN

London.

It is too early to give a definitive assessment of the London Uprisings over the weekend, but there are nevertheless two key lessons that have emerged.

The first and most important is the social breakdown that can take place when the police force has become an invading army, using paramilitary tactics, and has lost the trust of the people it is meant to serve.

The Metropolitan Police, are in the main interlopers in some London communities. They are mainly recruited from the regions (Scotland, Ireland and to a lesser extent Wales) and the provinces, the North East, some from the North West, and even fewer from the Midlands and the South East and South West.

But, they largely share in common a dislike of living in London. Most Metropolitan Police live in the Home Counties – Surrey, Kent, Essex, Hertfordshire, Berkshire and Buckinghamshire. They commute in to work and see policing the inner city as policing aliens, crooks, thugs, dope dealers and users, pimps and dole scroungers.

Sadly, it has been ever thus. Since the 1950s and 60s, when Notting Hill and Notting Dales police stations became like internment camps for black people. Then Brixton, Stoke Newington, Harrow Road, Shepherd Bush, Peckham, Lewisham and Harlesden, and Handsworth in Birmingham, took up the fight.

Those of us who have been around before and since the national explosion in 1980/81, and again in 1985 in Broadwater Farm, know full well the lessons had not been learned. After the 1981 riots we got the Scarman report, and the Police and Criminal Evidence Act, and were told it would never happen again. After the 1985 Broadwater Farm uprisings we had the unofficial Gifford Inquiry and again were told it would never happen again. Then we got the farce of the Stephen Lawrence murder inquiry, the hypocrisy of the Daily Mail intervention and the Macpherson report, all added to the diversion of the national debate about race relations and policing.

If anything, despite appearances, policing in London has never been worse since the 1960s.

Already it is beginning to look as if the so-called gun carried by Mark Duggan, the victim of the Operation Trident (the Scotland Yard force dedicated to black gun crime) and CO19, the permanently armed squad which patrols London heavily equipped with semi-automatic submachine guns and small arms, was a replica. Why did Trident, an armed squad, need backup with officers armed with semi-automatic weapons?

Even more seriously, it also looks from initial finds that the police officer who escaped injury when a shot lodged in his radio was in fact shot by a police issue gun. So, either Duggan had a police issue gun which he used to shoot at officers, or the officer was shot by one of his colleagues.

In any case, the shooting dead of Duggan was just a catalyst, not the real reason for the urban youth rebellion. The simple message to get out is that police and the black and youth community are not on good terms. In fact, white police officers often treat their black colleagues as if they were criminals just waiting to be arrested. Just look at the ongoing standoff between the Black Police Association and the Met.

There is no hiding the fact that a generation of socially dysfunctional young people, mainly men, are out of order. This is the generation that has fallen victim to the institutional racism that hits it full in the face the moment its members enter the British educational system at the age of five. By the time they are ready to enter secondary schools, quite often they have a record of suspensions, police searches, and teacher neglect.

The society has chosen to explain away this appalling treatment as a failure of black parenting, of peer pressure, of lack of ambition. However, it does not explain why black university graduates do not fare any better than their less qualified counterparts, why women in particular (and black women are among the highest qualified women in the country, better qualified overall than white women) do not get career opportunities to reflect this – although they do much better than men.

Nor, does it explain why every time the Home Office and the Metropolitan Police want to pay lip service to good race relations they go off to the United States looking for ideas – or photo opportunities with black kids in South London schools. Apart from the fact that all these progressive policing ideas used in the US have failed, it seems that British politicians and senior police managers have not yet realised that the vast majority of black people in the UK have been born in this country and are from a Caribbean and African heritage. Someone must tell them we are not American and do not have anything culturally in common with black Americans apart from a history of slavery and a love of good popular music.

But the narrative of black youth crime and its fabrication by police is long and sad. Take Winston Silcott, the young man who became the symbol of the 1985 Broadwater Farm uprisings and the aetiology of his criminal history.

Silcott's first 'offence' was for riding a bicycle on the pavement, an anti-social act that can be and is often resolved with a telling off. From there it built up and built up with the petty accusations that the black community knows only so well, ever time going before a magistrate who no doubt saw the courts as the institution to criminalise 'idle' young people.

It was easy from there to make the assumption that after the brutal hacking to death of PC Keith Blakelock that the police was determined that someone – anyone – must pay the price. The person, it soon became evident, was Silcott. Eventually they got him jailed, not for the murder of PC Blakelock, but for the stabbing to death of another youth, an offence for which Silcott pleaded not guilty.

It was widely assumed that his conviction and jailing was in reality punishment for the murder of PC Blakelock. To many, the death of Mark Duggan and the weekend's uprisings were but the latest chapter in the continuing showdown between Tottenham police and the local black community.

Of course, whatever the prehistory, the apologists and 'experts', black and white, have been quick off the mark with explanations of the root causes of the uprisings and ways to prevent any future occurrences.

Diane Abbott, the MP for Hackney and for years out of the Labour Party's parliamentary loop, went to tongue in Monday's Independent. The 1985 Broadwater Farm uprisings, she agreed with her colleague David Lammy, MP for Tottenham, were understandable, but this time things are different.

Over the years Diane and I have had our differences of opinion, but this time she over-stretched herself.

She wrote, in a remarkable revision of history:


"I remember the original Broadwater Farm riots clearly. So it was a heart-stopping moment on Saturday night to realise that, 26 years later, Tottenham was in flames again. But in 2011, a lot is different. For one thing, the first I heard about the riots was on Twitter; complete with photographs of burning police cars. And, if I was alerted in that way, I suspect that thousands of others were. For most of us it was just a piece of shocking news. But for some it was a cue to get down there.

"The other thing that may be different is the underlying relationship between the police and the community. My friend David Lammy, who has been the member of parliament for Tottenham since 2000, was correct to point out that, while the original Broadwater Farm riots were a straight fight between the police and the youth, the latest disturbances were an attack on Tottenham itself. It was not just cars and buildings that went up in smoke on Saturday night. It was 25 years of investment, of painstaking attempts to transform Tottenham's reputation and (above all) of trying to build better; police-community relations."


Diane Abbott's memory is not as good as she and other revisionists seem to think.

I also remember the other street disturbances we had in the 1980s. I covered the nationwide uprisings of 1981 for the News of the World, and the 1985 Broadwater Farm disturbances for the Daily Mail.

What's more, at the time, I was also living in South Tottenham, on Fairview Road.

And my recall is nothing like Diane's. The media described black people then, with out distinction, as animals and savages during the 1981 'riots' and worse. The evidence is there. Just go to the Colindale Newspaper Library in North West London and read the back issues. I still have the clippings in my garden shed.

And, it was even worse after the 1985 Broadwater Farm disturbances, during which PC Keith Blakelock was hacked to death. To many of us, the cold case reviews, the mass arrests, the quarantining of the estate, all suggested that the police were out to settle scores.

The public is also getting its cues from the politicians, including the London-born, Harvard-educated Guyanese lawyer, David Lammy, whose lack of proper analysis on any important social issue, to my mind, is a disgrace.

One letter writer to the Independent (Monday), writing from Derbyshire, said:


"The riots and looting at Tottenham are not the consequence of a single act of the police but a toxic combination of social deprivation and a lack of moral compass where the only code is that of the street gangs."

"In our cities, we are neglecting the young and the old alike, but at least the government can take comfort from the fact that the thousands of elderly people imprisoned in undignified squalor are unlikely to take to the streets."


So, from this letter writer based in the comforts of Derbyshire, the Peak District no doubt, we can see how official Britain is going to explain away the problem: a bit of social deprivation, but there have been huge investments to deal with this.

Is Ms Abbott talking about the Tottenham in which the police parade around like an invading force, that local businesspeople commute in and out with their huge profits to and from their suburban homes?

Is she talking about local businesses, including the fast food restaurants, in which the customers are black but the owners and people behind the counters are of all other ethnic communities but Caribbean?

And, of course, the letter writer hit upon an issue often discussed in private by the white, professional middle class, but not in public: the lack of a moral compass in Afro-Caribbean parenting.

Just listen to the acting commissioner of police Goodwin appealing to parents to take their children home. Listen to deputy mayor Kit Malthouse echoing that appeal like a stereo.

The world knows that Caribbean people of a certain generation are among the strictest parents in the country.

Of course it is all bogus, all nonsense, all groupthink. Since the alternative view is that young black people, in particular men, are the ones feeling the most pain from this economic maelstrom, but were never the beneficiaries during the boom years. Young black men would not know what a bank bonus was if it hit them full in the face. To the vast majority of black people the London economy is always in recession.

They also know that our friendly prime minister, the Eton and Oxford-educated 'Dave' Cameron is out to cut their benefits even more. It is the price of being black in 21st century Britain.

In the finally analysis, the Tottenham uprising has not only exposed our black community political impotence in the UK, it has also emphasised the gap between us and the New Britons – Eastern Europeans, Asians, West Africans, Somalis, Ethiopians, Eritreans, and others – all of whom have left us behind in terms of developing their own business cultures, community cohesion and political organisation.

Most of all, it once again exposes the trickery and deceit of those who aspire to be our leaders. Not a single black 'leader' has spoken out in defence of the youths. Not one.

We spend our money at fast food restaurants owned by others and which employ people from other communities; we send our children to school and take no real interest in how they are doing; we vote for politicians who could not care less about our welfare; and we sit on our hands while our young people stab and shoot each other over 'respect'.

The one institution within the black Caribbean community in this country after 60 years, post Empire Windrush, of any significance is the church and, unlike any other religious group in Britain, the black church badly lacks a social gospel. Our faith leaders are only interested in our offerings.

We do not even have the energy to organise community meetings around these serious issues.

As a post script, it is important to remind people that from television pictures the rioting crowds and their supporters have been composed of all ethnic and religious groups, including Hasidic Jews, but of course the blacks get the blame.

Watch out for the carnival and next year's Olympics.


Hal Austin, a Barbadian, lives in London and is a leading journalist and social commentator from the Black community.

[Charles Pegge]

It's mostly mass-looting. They seem to be completely disengaged from the rest of the community.

http://www.rferl.org/content/britain_riots/24290975.html (http://www.rferl.org/content/britain_riots/24290975.html)

[danbaron]

They also know that our friendly prime minister, the Eton and Oxford-educated 'Dave' Cameron is out to cut their benefits even more. It is the price of being black in 21st century Britain.

7375

Cameron also dismissed descriptions of the rioting as social unrest, saying the violence in London and several other cities was "criminality, pure and simple" that has to be "confronted and defeated."

7376

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."

"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - - that's all."

[Charles Pegge]

Many of these rioters are just children, barely into their teens, and their target is shops often small privately owned ones, not civic buildings or the police themselves.

It was reported this morning that some retailers in the Turkish community were arming themselves with clubs and even knives, prepared to take the law into their own hands to defend each other's property, and their customers.

In several parts of London, Twitter is being used by the residents to co-ordinate their own clean up operation and remove the wreckage.

Charles

[danbaron]

I'm not an expert, but, I don't think riots spontaneously grow from nothing.

Does anyone really believe that it all is, "criminality, pure and simple"?

When people riot, do they normally discriminate among what can be attributed to be the direct causes of their problems?

Or, do they try to make everyone else miserable like they are?

I guess if it all is, "criminality, pure and simple", then, the population of bad people has greatly increased.

In that case, Cameron can either blame immigration, or conjure another reason why the percentage of bad people has grown.

Additionally, he has the problem of explicating why now people are expressing their badness at such a young age.

It's interesting, with his education at Eton and Oxford, the deepest explanation Cameron can come up with is, "criminality, pure and simple".

Does that indicate a waste of educational resources?

Actually, as we know, politicians in charge never blame the system which they represent.

To them, riots are never indicators of systemic dysfunction, but only of an (apparently) inexplicable explosion of criminals.

Of course, in citing, "criminality, pure and simple", he is trying to appeal to the average of the citizenry, which in any country, is not very bright.

Like all politicians do in a society which begins to show, "cracks", Cameron wants to reassure everyone (including himself), that the system is sound, and will remain as it has been, there is nothing to worry about, --> "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.".

(I don't intend to imply that this phenomenon is or will be confined to England. I think it will come to almost every Western country. When money rules a government/society, sooner or later those with none feel they have nothing to lose.)

[Charles Pegge]

I totally agree that these events are a sign of major dysfunction in society and I don't think any of our politicians seriously believe these riots just happen without underlying causes. We have extremes of wealth and poverty, a media which often glamorises violence, and the parents often have to work so hard just to pay the bills that they have no time or energy left for their children. I could go on but I think our whole economic system and way of life has to change.

Many people think that Gross-Domestic-Product to be replaced with General-Well-Being.

Charles

[danbaron]

Hurray! Either I am not insane (concerning this issue), or, at least we both are.

[Charles Pegge]

No need for water cannon last night. We had heavy rain.

People are furious that this has been allowed to happen, so the authorities have now switched into full punishment mode.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14485592

However I listened to BBC radio 4 yesterday, and found there was much thoughtful analysis on the underlying causes. So I remain optimistic that we will start to address the fundamentals.


Charles



(http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14485592)

[danbaron]

I can't predict the future, who knows?, things may get much worse.

But, I tend to feel encouraged by the fact that all of the Western countries are simultaneously confronting the reality of their common dysfunctional economic system.

My guess is that the United States will be the last one to admit that anything is wrong.

Here, the top 1% control 40% of the wealth. And, the top 1% can afford to use enough of that wealth to determine who is elected, what laws are passed, and what makes it into the mainstream media (the mainstream media always assures everyone that things here are wonderful). They (the top 1%) use that power to help themselves at the expense of everyone else.

They have the money, but, we have the numbers. If more and more people do not cooperate with the system, it seems they will eventually be confronted with trying to enforce the system's dictates on a hostile populace. Then, if history repeats, and the system remains rigid, more and more of a police state will be implemented. Ultimately, the military will be used to protect the ruling class from the people (which here is illegal, but practically, that won't matter), and the system will lose all respect and legitimacy. We see it happening now in the Middle East. There is nothing fundamentally different between the people there, and us. People are people, everywhere. Whatever can happen in one country, can under certain circumstances, happen in another.

Hopefully, before long, the widespread belief here that America is the exception to every rule, will be deposited into the trash can of delusions.

As I said above, it is illegal in the United States to use the military against the populace. But, it is also illegal here to go to war without a declaration from Congress. The last time Congress declared war was for WW2. So, laws don't really matter here, because words (like, for Humpty Dumpty) have the meanings which those in power assign to them. For instance, words like, "war". I guess, "war", is in the eye of the beholder. Similarly, if and when the time comes, the meaning of what constitutes using the military against the populace, can be shaped as required.

Another example in which laws don't matter here: if I am correct, according to international law, an airstrike on another country is a declaration of war. Tell that to all of the countries which have been recipients of U.S. drone strikes since the onset of, "the War on Terror".

And, beyond the manipulation of the meanings of words, those in power here also have the handy tool of, "extraordinary circumstances", during which the Constitution can be suspended, and martial law can be imposed. And again, what constitutes, "extraordinary circumstances", is also in the eye of the beholder, whose eye will most likely be that of the figurehead for maintaining the system exactly as it is.

To me, capitalism is fundamentally flawed. It is always corrupt, gives the vast majority of the wealth to a tiny minority, destroys the ecology of the planet, depends upon an ever increasing market size, depends upon forcing people to buy the same products over and over again (i.e., it produces junk, designed to quickly fail), and is the economic equivalent of war - competition, not cooperation. How much energy is wasted, when, for instance, 10 businesses make the same product, and, only one of them survives? - the other nine were wasting their time.

Additionally, capitalism demonstrates that it can paralyze action, as it is doing worldwide now, by holding countries and their populations hostage to debt.

Capitalism is now showing that all that matters to it is profit. It has no loyalty to any country. Whichever country is the poorest gets the available jobs, for the lowest possible wages. Yet, at least so far, no one dares call capitalists, parasites, traitors. Any criticism of capitalism is met by accusations of advocating Satans's system of, gasp, "socialism". Here, for many, death would be preferable to such an institution. In my opinion, people who view capitalism as a viable economic model for the future, have the foresight of a cave fish. Even as capitalism promotes offshoring today, tomorrow it will promote the elimination of all human labor, by machines. Then, its solution for those who do not own said machines, may be docile starvation, or, maybe, a "humane" pill, which induces, deep deep "sleep".

(As impossible as this is to believe, we have here a group of private banks, which together compromise an institution which no one understands, called, the Federal Reserve. It has absolute power over our money supply. The system was instituted by Woodrow Wilson, in order to finance WW1. What a crooked fraud this thing is!)

But, like I said above, I am somewhat encouraged. Now, with the internet, people from all over the planet are able to communicate about the unfair inequities, and the embedded institutions of doom, which are common everywhere. If this communication can be maintained, then, the power of many individuals working independently, can be tremendously amplified, as they are able to work together.

[danbaron]

7382
David Cameron, great statesman
and humanitarian - a champion for
equality.

Has there ever been a victimizing regime which did not blame its victims?

In every incident against such a regime, the regime always focuses on the tiniest details of what occurred, never on the big picture. The regimes are so amazingly brilliant! Amazingly!! By studying each "leaf" under high magnification, no one ever thinks about standing back and looking at the entire forest, no one at all!!

Here (next) I'm referring to those who have not been harmed, and who are not threatened in any way whatsoever by the riots. There is an inverse relationship between the anger and hatred expressed by an individual against the perpetrators, and the time during which that individual would be able to survive under the same conditions.

http://www.commondreams.org/further/2011/08/10-3

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/08/11-9

http://www.counterpunch.org/finamore08102011.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Of course, I don't want to forget to mention capitalism's greatest gift to the modern world, global war for profit.

Who thinks that the reason the United States is always engaged in non-stop wars which last endlessly, is anything other than the fact that powerful people profit from them, not because of victory, but, from extending them forever into the hazy future?

Who thinks that the reason America changed from drafting into the military to voluntary service after Vietnam, was anything other than the fact that the children of the powerful no longer would be conscripted? When the infantry comes from the bottom, then, keep that war going, no problem, right?

Remember, the guys in the suits who advocate nonstop for war, are the last ones who would ever put themselves in harm's way. The purpose of those at the bottom, is to fight and die for the profit and entertainment of those at the top, or, am I mistaken?

-----------------------------------------------------------------

American Marine General Smedley Butler wrote and had published the book, "War is a Racket", in 1935.

http://warisaracket.org/

Has it had the slightest effect on the consciences (oxymoron) of the propagandist war profiteers?

From,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket)The book is also interesting historically as Butler points out in 1935 that the US is engaging in military war games (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_war_games) in the Pacific (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific) that are bound to provoke the Japanese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan).

"The Japanese, a proud people, of course will be pleased beyond expression to see the United States fleet so close to Nippon's shores. Even as pleased as would be the residents of California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California) were they to dimly discern through the morning mist, the Japanese fleet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Japanese_Navy) playing at war games off Los Angeles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles)."
Butler explains that the excuse for the buildup of the US fleet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_fleet) and the war games is fear that "the great fleet of this supposed enemy will strike suddenly and annihilate 125,000,000 people."

(But maybe I am simply being rude by discoursing on such topics. Possibly, this is even worse than uttering, "toilet paper", in public, I'm too coarse to judge.)


(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket)

[Charles Pegge]

Why I Riot: A View on the London Riots

Written by Richard Jackson (http://www.e-ir.info/?author=139) on August 11, 2011 – 12:33

http://www.e-ir.info/?p=12230 (http://www.e-ir.info/?p=12230)

[danbaron]

When I read it, I thought Richard Jackson was one of the rioters. But, it doesn't matter. Still, probably most of the rioters are more intelligent than those above them in the class structure, who are determined to keep them exactly where they are.

Does a society which subjugates a class of people, ever not blame them when they rebel?

No matter how evolved man believes he has become, some problems remain intractable. For them, there are no scientific breakthroughs. In 1905, Einstein said that the speed of light was absolute, and it remains so, regardless of how much people dream. When the ruling class squeezes the bottom class until it revolts, the ruling class still has only two alternatives; either release some of the pressure, or, crush the rebellion. It was exactly the same during the Roman Empire, as it is today in England. In this case, Cameron is determined to do the latter.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Cameron is a funny guy, yeah?

How long did it take him, maybe two seconds, to start pressuring and blaming the technology companies which enable the rioters (along with everyone else) to communicate?

Apparently, this is a, "unique circumstance", in which, "What's good for the goose, is not necessarily good for the gander.".

It was a sentiment shared by Cameron as recently as this February, when he gave a speech in Kuwait in which he asserted that freedom of expression should be respected "in Tahrir Square as much as Trafalgar Square."

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/08/12-4


Maybe, communication is a privilege, not a right.

Sounds like a good campaign slogan, doesn't it?

"Communication is a privilege, not a right."

[Charles Pegge]

What do you think of David Icke's point of view?

http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/52025-british-street-rioters-played-like-a-violin

[danbaron]

I like David Icke.

We hear him on our radio show.

Who is more interesting?

I think it is impossible that everything he says is true, and, he admits it.

But, I think he is often close to the bullseye.

I'll guess what he says before I look, from, "like a violin".

I suppose it could be that if a violin is out of tune, it sounds terrible.

But, I'll guess that it is, if you tighten a string too much, it breaks.

Now, I'll look.

[danbaron]

I looked, my guess was wrong.

Anyway, I agree with Icke's basic premise.

I don't think Cameron and those of his class care anything about almost any human life.

And, Cameron's propaganda campaign of arresting as many rioters as he is able, and immediately prosecuting them, to me, is a transparent attempt to deflect attention from the true meaning of the riots.

Concerning, "the ever-advancing police and military state", I have mixed feelings. On one hand, I'm sure that many at the top would like nothing more than to have one. On the other hand, it seems to me that police/military states are not stable. People rebel, as we are seeing now in the Middle East. I guess it could be that the most powerful players are psychotic, and have convinced themselves that they can and will successfully institute a stable enduring totally repressive regime. Maybe their confidence is bolstered by the amazingly fast advances in surveillance and weapons technology, which we are now witnessing. Concerning what they are planning, anything is possible. My guess is that many in Hitler's inner circle actually believed that the Third Reich would reign for a thousand years. A cult, considered as a single organism, exhibits much greater insanity, than any of its individual members. Cults do not respect class boundaries. They appear and grow in every class.

I haven't seen any movies in many years, but, wasn't Stanley Kubrick's, "Eyes Wide Shut", somehow connected to wealthy ritualistic cult-type behavior?

Now, I found a review of, "Eyes Wide Shut". I have aversions to both Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman, but, otherwise, it seems like the sort of movie I used to like.

http://www.indelibleinc.com/kubrick/films/ews/reviews/harpers.html

Who knows what the super-rich do when they are absolutely secure in their privacy?

I've heard internet rumors that G.H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton hunted human prey together? Who knows?

For some reason, I've imagined super rich couples going to special, "restaurants", and having romantic dinners while viewing humans being tortured behind sound-proof glass. If I can imagine it, then, I bet they can too.

The rich and powerful can be just as crazy as anyone else. The difference is, that, they can indulge their crazy fantasies.

Probably, (maybe through Alex Jones), you've heard of Bohemian Grove. What goes on there, croquet and badminton?

http://www.infowars.com/bg1.html

Of course, that does not mean that they will be successful in implementing their plans for depopulation and global control. Humanity can also be considered as an organism. And, that organism will react against attempts by the elite to rule and/or destroy it.

(From the little I know of Cameron, he reminds me of Bush Jr. - guys who dream of being dictators. And, isn't he a tiny guy, like Bush? No Napoleonic complexes here, right?)

[Charles Pegge]

Heights: (from Google)

Cameron 6' 0.5" 184cm
Obama 6' 1" 185cm
George W Bush 5' 11.5" 182cm
Napoleon 5' 6.5" 168.6 cm

Napoleon's height is considered normal for a French man in his time even though it troubled him.

And here is the full cabinet to display on your mantelpiece. :)

http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00372/getty-cabinet_372679b.jpg


But the civil service has most of the power. Senior civil servants have permanent posts and a number of them earn more than the prime minister.

Charles

[danbaron]

I may be wrong, but, I think that the heights of famous men are often exaggerated.

I especially notice it when they are standing next to women, unless the women are all wearing 6 inch heels.

How tall is the guy behind Cameron and to the right of him, 6'10"?

[Charles Pegge]

The clean up.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/54524000/jpg/_54524541_faceoncrowd_ap.jpg