Martian Super Intelligence!

[danbaron]

Do you see it?

http://www.space.com/11907-mars-history-martian-illusions-human-delusions.html

On the weird radio show (http://www.coasttocoastam.com/) I listen to late at night, Richard C. Hoagland is the official science adviser. I have heard him many times. He sounds absolutely rational to me. But, I think almost everything he says, is false.

Here is his website.

http://www.enterprisemission.com/

And here is the page about his, "hyperdimensional physics". Somehow, he was able to make this, "breakthrough", with no scientific education as far as I am aware.

http://www.enterprisemission.com/physics.html

Here is what wikipedia has to say about him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_C._Hoagland

And here is what an actual astronomer says about him.

http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/hoagland/

You can see him for yourself if you want to (below). I think if you watch him (my connection is too slow), you may agree with me. The variations in people are amazing. Those at the extreme ends of the psychological bell curve can be fascinating to listen to and watch. I think for many of these people, there is no line between fraud and delusion. And when they are charismatic, they often lead radical political movements, or cults - and attract devoted, fervent, true believers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDEcfohz8xE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wN7BdNKIVI

:o

[zak]

Those at the extreme ends of the psychological bell curve can be fascinating to listen to and watch
this is invested by movie makers ; the people like to see the stories of crimes, killing, robbery, etc.
i saw once the cartoon in which tom (the cat) become so polite with cherry the mouse, cherry get bored by this static life and he asked tom to return to his original hostile behaviour.

[Charles Pegge]

He spoke of Dr Joseph Farrell, whose investigations are remarkably detailed and scholarly, in tracking the Nazis and their technology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_P._Farrell

http://www.projectcamelot.org/joseph_farrell.html

Project Camelot interviews Joseph Farrell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wJboIFKCFU

[danbaron]

I'm not implying that everyone Hoagland speaks about is a fraud, for instance, Joseph Farrell. There's lots of people he has mentioned, including Newton, Einstein, and Hawking. I am saying that attaching himself to credible scientists, does not necessarily make him credible.

http://www.skepticalmind.com/hoagland.html

[Charles Pegge]

I am fascinated by how one can judge whether something contains a grain of truth or not.

The web is such a wonderful source of factoids.

I think you have to study both the motives of the person and whether they base their theories on provable or at least corroborated facts, or theorems in the case of mathematics.

People who show a passion for their subject without ulterior motives and put a lot of work into it also get a high credibility rating.

I didn't get very far with Hoagland but would at least agree that we have (until very recently) a domineering industrial-military complex and that Nazi technologists were spared justice at the Nuremberg trials were sequestered by the US and have played an influential role is this enterprise ever since.

Charles

[danbaron]

I absolutely agree about the US taking any and every Nazi scientist who it thought would be useful. What does that say about the US?

"He might be a Nazi war criminal, but, he's our Nazi war criminal - that's the difference!"

:p

[kryton9]

I like it when Richard comes on. First his memory amazes me. Second he goes in very detailed steps in his explanations.

That is the problem when government keeps such secrets, all anyone can do is speculate with the best information they have. He does document his work thoroughly. But how accurate are those references? That is the problem with secrets.

I think he does a very good job and I like his excitement, he is still the adventurous curious kid that we all start out as, and I like that a lot!

But his ability to remember dates, what who said and such is amazing.

His hyper-dimensional physics I am sure will play out someday, if not exactly as he says. When you hear about crafts and aliens who can sort of appear from nowhere as phasing in from other dimensions his explanation is as good as any I've heard.

And that oddity with that angle and number that comes up all the time in his observations... shows you how bad my memory is, I can't remember it, but it ties a lot of the shapes on Mars with those on Earth and in their locations. He is onto something with that observation.

[danbaron]

I agree that he is always enthusiastic and interesting when he comes on the show.

George Noory is responsible for making him the show's science adviser.

So, from my point of view, George Noory should take the blame for that. As far as I know, Hoagland has no scientific background. I think that George Noory doesn't care whether Hoagland knows what he is talking about, or not. Noory treats him as having equal credibility with, for instance, Michio Kaku. To me, this situation exists because, George Noory also knows nothing about science, and has demonstrated over the years either the inability or unwillingness, to learn anything about science (I think it is both - I doubt anyone will ever mistake Noory for Einstein).

Today, advances in physics are made by the smartest people, who have devoted their lives to studying physics. To me, Hoagland does not come within light years of that description.

For years, he primarily talked and wrote about, "the face on Mars". Even though recent NASA photographs have discredited the "face"; when it is convenient, he will still talk about the face, as if the NASA discrediting photographs do not exist. He is single-minded in making a career out of declaring that an ancient super-advanced civilization existed on Mars, and that evidence of it remains on Mars today. He hasn't the least care that professional physicists and astronomers as a group, totally refute his declarations. Because, you see, he is absolutely convinced that he is correct, and they are wrong.

I don't usually listen very closely to the details of his pronouncements. I am more interested in trying to determine whether or not he realizes that he mostly tells fairy tales. But, if I recall, he also has stated that there are alien bases on the Moon, and that is the main reason that mankind has not gone back to the Moon for many years, because the aliens warned it not to.

To do any kind of theoretical physics today, a person must a talent for, and a great knowledge of, mathematics. I would be willing to bet a lot of money, that Hoagland has neither. So, concerning his "hyperdimensional physics", I think it is the modern equivalent of snake oil - there were always "suckers" ready to put down their money to buy it too, in order to "cure" any and every physical ailment.

Also, Hoagland sees conspiracies everywhere. If NASA said that the sun is shining today, he would find it to be absolute proof of a conspiracy. According to him, everything NASA does is associated with some type of ancient ritual. It could be the date or time of a launch, or the number painted on a shuttle's fuselage. To him, each of these is a coded symbol, which only he is able decipher.

Guys like Hoagland, and, for instance, Harold Camping (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Camping), are similar - most people are left wondering if they realize they are frauds.

Concerning Noory, he is willing to do commercials for anything at all. All of the people selling products for the "imminent" collapse of the United States, advertise on the show. One minute Noory will say that the dollar is going to collapse and so everyone should buy gold, and the next minute he will say that soon there will be food rationing and so everyone should stockpile emergency food. Also, he almost never challenges any of his guests. One night a guest will come on the show and say, "A", and Noory will agree with him. The next night someone else will come on the show and say, "-A", and Noory will agree with him.

I do listen to the show, but although Noory pretends it is not true, the show's primary, secondary, tertiary, ..., purposes, are to make as much money as it can.

Concerning Hoagland - "You can't argue with someone who doesn't know anything.". But, I agree, he can be fascinating - and so many patients in mental hospitals can be.

(Just my opinion, nothing more.)

:( :p

[kryton9]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions Dan and I listen with earnest to yours and enjoy hearing what you have to say.

[danbaron]

I like to hear him to, Kent, just for his enthusiasm, conviction, and happy mood - even if I sometimes speculate that he is crazy, being crazy is not a crime.

No matter what flaws I may perceive, he is still human, and is likeable. The same goes for George Noory.

We are all in the same "boat", we'll all wind up in the same place, wherever that may be. So, I guess we should make allowances for each others' eccentricities. Life itself seems crazy, right? - why are we even here? - does anyone know?

But, sometimes I become irritated by these guys - they make pronouncements which I perceive to be cuckoo, and they remain unchallenged.

On the other hand, listening to them pontificate is often better than listening to silence. People are social animals. There is no avoiding it. Almost always, an isolated human is an unhappy human.

:x :p

[kryton9]

I agree and also you get to hear about something different as opposed to the same stuff repeated over and over again on all other major media. I stopped listening this week for a break.

When I listen to a few of the alternative information shows as I like to do, then I end up spending a lot of my time trying to verify or find out more about what I heard about. It is fun because it is new stuff I had not been exposed to before but it keeps me away then from doing creative stuff on the computer and programming, so thus the cut off this week while I get back into things again.