Forum structure

[ErosOlmi]

I will sooner or later retry to move into new forum software.

In the meantime I got a simple question from thinBasic web site that let me recognize that current forum structure is too much thinBasic language oriented and less user oriented.
A person asked me: "where do i upload files that i made with ThinAIR on my profile?"
It seems an easy question but if you look at current forum structure, it is not trivial to reply. Where can you upload your files, your thinBasic projects?

I think I have to re-organize the forum structure to me more project oriented.
At the beginning of thinBasic project of course I had to concentrate to thinBasic, to its features, to its modules, to its bugs.
But in future I think it is more important to concentrate on what thinBasic can do, on user creations, on user projects.

Of course I will not remove any of the current forums or posts but just re-organize them to be more user and user projects oriented.
If you have any idea to share about this, it will be welcome.

Ciao
Eros

[ErosOlmi]

I think there are a lot of nice projects and thinBasic examples here in forum that would merit to have more light.
Many of them are posted into forum of specific modules like TBGL and others because they mainly used and/or took advantage from that modules.
In reality they should have merit for the project itself and not for the use of a particular module or a particular feature of the thinBasic language.

I'm thinking how to achieve this with current SMF forum software.

[Petr Schreiber]

That is interesting topic, I agree.

I had similar ideas about help file, some modules have cryptic names (yes, for example ... ehm ... TBGL), so maybe some higher level groups of organization like "Networking", "Graphics", "User interface" could make it easier in help file as well.

For example, I like a lot the ThinGaming section here, but it might be slightly hard to even notice it is here.

Some better organization of projects could motivate the authors to present their work here too. Something like "Project of the day" put on the front page, changing each day so everybody gets his focus.

Maybe stronger connection between front page and forum could do good too.

I am curious about the ideas of others.


Petr

[ErosOlmi]

I think with vBulletin it will be possible.
Using SMF is quite hard other than making a different forum structure
So better to look at vBulleting and recover the migration project.

Regarding thinGaming it is a ASP project developed by me but it will be hard to integrate with SMF forum users and posts.

For help, yes, good idea to divide modules into more clever and less cryptic names.

[Michael Hartlef]

I think it would be a great idea to structure the forum newly. Also I agree that the current structure might be to complicated. Here is my suggestion:

I--Announcements
I--ThinBasic
I--Feature requests/Suggestions
I--Implemented Features
I--Bug reports
I--Solved bugs
I--Sample scripts
!--Developer questions
I--Application development
I--Game development
I--User projects
I--Applications
I--Games
I--Thinbasic extentions/tools
I--Off Topic

It is a very simple layout which should be easy to navigate. As you can see, there is no other languages section anymore. Imho this is the thinbasic support board, so I think it is not needed. If you want to post about a language developed in/for thinbasic, then it should be under Userprojects. If someone wants to notify the users here about another languagethat has nothing to do with thinbasic, they could do it in the offtopic section. Constant postings about another language should be done in one topic in the offtopic section.

Maybe it would be good to use a bug tracker tool like mantis. Not that we have so many but it could be usefull. And I also agree that we could use some kind of download/upload section in the side where users could upload their code/extensions for others.

As always count me in when it comes to moving/reorganizing this place.

Cheers
Michael

[ErosOlmi]

Michael,

interesting. Simplicity is the key, I agree with you.
Will think about that while I will restart to study vBulletin.

Eros

[John Spikowski]

As you can see, there is no other languages section anymore. Imho this is the thinbasic support board, so I think it is not needed.

I agree with you Michael. This is the thinBASIC forum and all other languages should be removed. I could see having a general BASIC announcements board but that's it.

Maybe Eros can generate a poll and see how the other thinBASIC forum members feel about having non-thinBASIC topics discussed here.
.

[danbaron]

[font=courier new][size=8pt]I absolutely disagree with the idea of making the forum only for topics about ThinBasic. What attracted me to ThinBasic, is the fact that the forum has so many
different topics; for instance, math, science, and other languages. I felt that the developers of ThinBasic did not feel threatened by posts about other
subjects; because if they did, then why would they allocate forum space for them?

Changing the structure so that it is limited to ThinBasic, makes me think of the authoritarian personality. Apparently, some people are unhappy and/or offended
when posts appear concerning other languages - I guess certain topics need to be censored, for the, "greater good". When people use the word, "should", they lose
my attention, especially people who are basically onlookers. (I agree that I am also basically an onlooker, but I am not advocating restricting what can be
posted. By the way, did you ever notice that the word "should", doesn't explain anything?)

It seems to me that it makes no difference if there are a million different subject areas. Having so many, makes a person feel that he will not be criticized
for posting the strange or unusual. If you think about it, often scientific advances occur when people come up with ideas, that initially seem crazy. I wonder
how many times breakthroughs happen when someone looks at data and says, "That's strange.".

Maybe I have an unusual talent, but, I find it very easy to look at a topic's subject, and to decide whether or not I want to look at the topic. If I happen to
look at a topic that I find uninteresting, then, I look at something else. And, I don't find following this procedure to be a great burden. And, maybe
amazingly, I have never been greatly offended by anything that I inadvertently read. I have never felt that a particular topic or post, "should", be removed.

The way the forum is now, reminds me of the "open source" philosophy. The proposals to restrict it, remind me of the Microsoft philosophy. My guess is that
restricting the forum to only ThinBasic, will result in less forum activity.

Take a look at what percentage of the posts are not directly about ThinBasic now. I bet that if the forum is changed to being only about ThinBasic, then, it
will lose at least that percentage of new posts. Because, some people who make both ThinBasic and non-ThinBasic posts now, will decide not to post anything
then. I don't think that restricting the forum to ThinBasic will cause there to be more posts about ThinBasic, or will cause more people to use ThinBasic.

I thought the idea was to get people to visit the site. I think that if the site is about ThinBasic, and also about programming and science generally, then the
number of visitors will be maximized. If it is only about ThinBasic, I bet the number of visitors will decrease.

Since ThinBasic is free, it is not apparent to me how posts in the forum about other languages and implementations, threaten it in any way. Maybe some are
worried that direct comparisons will reveal ThinBasic's flaws. Maybe some cannot tolerate the prospect of another language/implementation beating ThinBasic in
one way or another. Maybe some cannot tolerate the thought that their ThinBasic sub-forums, are not given the attention, "they deserve". Maybe, some never have
the idea, that showing what other languages/implementations can do, also serves to show how ThinBasic can be improved.

In my opinion, there are only so many types of programs that you can write in any language/implementation. If others are like me, then, they get tired of always
using the same language/implementation over and over. They like to go back and forth from one language/implementation to another, and to compare and contrast
them. If the forum allows people to do this, then, sooner or later they will return to using ThinBasic, and will put up new posts about it, otherwise, maybe
not.

I have a difficult time understanding the thinking of those who want to decrease what is acceptable to post in the forum. On the other hand, if the implementor
wants to do it, then, though I may disagree with him, it's his right.

:oops: :x :twisted:
Dan

[Michael Hartlef]

Dan,

I didn't say that it should only be talked about thinbasic here. In my suggestion there is a off topic board, just like we have the shout box area. Perfectly fine to talk about anything non basic related stuff. And if someone wants to talk about how to create a thinbasic module with the supported languages, then there is the extensions section in the user projects board. Nothing gets lost in my suggestion. If Zlatko wants to talk about his ABasic, he can do so in the offtpic section. That is perfectly fine with me. If he has a language, created with thinbasic, then it should go into the user projects section.

Anyway, it was just my 2 cents to the topic. Anyone is free to suggest their ideas. Eros will decide what he thinks is the best to support thinbasic and its users.

For me the board structure is to confusing and to crowded. But i can live with it and would not leave if it stays the same. After all it is just a board. :)

Cheers
Michael

[danbaron]

[font=courier new][size=8pt]Probably I over-reacted, Mike.

Maybe the paranoia is getting worse! :shock:

I'm sorry, I don't want to fight with you.

:unguee:
Dan

[Michael Hartlef]

Fight? Which fight? Did I miss something? :D

Dan, I just made a suggestion about restructing the forum, nothing else. Everyone here can do that. I don't want to have anything deleted. Imho the forum structure is way to big and difficult to handle. From a moderater point of view and I am sure, (new) for users at least too. So many times I catch myself thinking about moving posts because to me they are in the wrong forum section. Less boards makes handling this much easier. And also when you look for something, you don't rely on the search function so bad like it is right now. Sometimes you don't really now what you look for. For an example, you want to look for sample code that users posted in the forum. Not specifically moduel related, just see what is there. Right now you would have to jump through all module related forum sections. One place would be betterm or?

Right now the structure is very technical oriented. Module oriented. For developers who work on modules this is a nice thing but for a user it should be more problem/project oriented.


I absolutely disagree with the idea of making the forum only for topics about ThinBasic.

And that is why I thought I try to explain my suggestion a little bit more again because you thought I want to see only thinbasic related stuff here. :D

[Michael Clease]

Take a look at what percentage of the posts are not directly about ThinBasic now. I bet that if the forum is changed to being only about ThinBasic, then, it
will lose at least that percentage of new posts. Because, some people who make both ThinBasic and non-ThinBasic posts now, will decide not to post anything
then. I don't think that restricting the forum to ThinBasic will cause there to be more posts about ThinBasic, or will cause more people to use ThinBasic.


Dan,

Should we take it that people programming in TB has reduced and thats why the post count has dropped or should we look at it another way and say because of these posts that are not related to programming and/or TB be the reason people arent posting. I should hedge my bets and put it down to the summer and people braving the sunshine and finding real life things to do. :lol:

@John

I dont think we should remove mention of all other languages because we need them to produce the modules and its sometimes easier to ask the people that you have regular contact with.

Mike C

[ErosOlmi]

Whatever will be the decision, nothing will be deleted and there will not be any restrictions on what to post or talk about.

I think programming is nothing without a problem to solve. And to solve problems it is very very often needed to interact with many many other knowledge fields even un-expected. So my intention is absolutely not to restrict this forum to thinBasic or be thinBasic related only. It will be just a forum re-organization in order to be more easy to be handled and understood and, of course, a place where to spend some time the best way possible.

Ciao
Eros

[zak]

1- i have this suggestion about posting newtopics may be suitable for the new and old users
in the first page and without sliding it and in red color ;a button with a title "click here to Post a new Message" , (and not a new topic; the new user think that he is asked to author a new book. this new topic is okay in the sub forums as it is now).
when we click on that button, then a new page with just the titles something like this:
general programming in thinbasic graphics programming in thinbasic
.... ........
when we click the "graphics programming in thinbasic:" we may go to a page with two or more subtiltles :tbgl canvas ..... clicking on the tbgl will direct the user to the page in which he can write his post.

2-also changing "additional options" to "upload files" is better.

3-the number of programming questions may not neccessary denote the number of the people who are using specific prog language. as an example the perl module "win32 gui"
http://www.mail-archive.com/perl-win32-gui-users@lists.sourceforge.net/maillist.html
are used by thousands all over the world for producing gui (buttons,textbox,canvas,sliders....) for perl, but it is rare that there is a question even many users are beginners, and even the last 3 questions from more than 1.5 months have'nt answered yet. and some forums have 1 post per year. years ago i have posted a question to some forum and even the administrator forgot his forum, and when he answered me after several months i forgot my question.

[John Spikowski]

I restructured the ScriptBasic (http://www.scriptbasic.org/forum) forum because there were too many boards which made things hard to find and overwhelmed visitors.

Personally, I think support forums should be focused on the language it was targeted for. There is AllBasic.INFO (http://www.allbasic.info), Coding Monkeys (http://www.codingmonkeys.com/index.php) and Programmers Haven (http://codecraft.proboards.com/index.cgi) if your looking for general topics about Basic.