Request for Advance Notice of Catastrophes

[danbaron]

[font=courier new]I am in California.

So, those of you who are in Europe, live 8-10 hours in the future relative to me.

Therefore, I would appreciate it if in the case that you become aware of some catastrophe that affects California, you will immediately post a message about it.

Then, I may be able to prepare for the event in advance. Sometimes, a warning of even just minutes, can be the difference between extinction and survival.

I am grateful for your consideration in this matter.

:oops:
Dan :x :P

[Michael Hartlef]

Dan,

are you serious about this?

Michael

[Michael Clease]

Watch out I just looked outside and its all dark I think someone has stolen the sun.

[danbaron]

[font=courier new]M.H.
No, I'm not serious. The time on the clock for you is always 9 hours ahead of the time on the clock for me. But, I
realize that now for you is the same as now for me. When an event occurs, I know that it occurs for both of us
simultaneously, even though our clocks would disagree. But, it would be interesting if you actually lived 9 hours in the
future, relative to California. Then, if a giant earthquake occurred here at noon, you would already have known about it
for 9 hours. In that case, you could warn us about it, in advance. On the other hand, for you to know about it 9 hours
in advance, someone would have had to inform you, whether directly or indirectly. And, how could anyone inform you about
the event, before the event?

M.C.
I think it takes light approximately 8 minutes to get here from the sun. If the sun did suddenly vanish, we could
not learn about it for 8 minutes. During that time, it would still appear in the (daytime) sky as usual. When the time
elapsed, I think that night would instantaneously occur. Also, during the 8 minutes, Earth would remain in its orbit
around where the sun had been (I don't think physicists know exactly why, but gravity travels at the speed of light).
After 8 minutes, the sun's gravity would suddenly disappear, and Earth would begin moving in a straight line, headed out
of the solar system (and taking the moon with it). Earth would quickly become extremely cold, and all life would die.
How about, if instead of the sun disappearing, Earth stopped rotating? In that case, one side of Earth would become
extremely hot, and the other side would become extremely cold. Most living things would die. But there should be a
narrow "twilight" zone between the hot and cold sides, where life could survive (I think).

:oops:
Dan :x :P

[Charles Pegge]

I believe there is a big question mark over whether gravity propagates at the speed of light or whether it is instantaneous as a property of space-time geometry. Gravitational waves have not been detected so far, though very sensitive devices are needed to verify the theory.

So if the sun were to disappear, the gravitational effects would be instantly felt on our planet. I trust no-one is planning such an experiment!

Charles

[danbaron]

[font=courier new]I Yahooed, "gravitational speed".
Below, is what I found.

I don't claim to have any special knowledge concerning this.

But, I would be surprised if changes in the gravitational field occur at all locations simultaneously (in other words,
gravity moving at infinite speed). As far as I know, the only phenomenon which can occur, seemingly outside of time,
concerns quantum entanglement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement

Another morbid experiment we could try, is to slow down Earth's orbital velocity. Intuitively, it seems to me if we did
that, then Earth should spiral into the sun. It is not clear to me how much we would need to slow Earth down, for this
to occur.

Another experiment. The mass of the sun is not enough for it to become a black hole due to gravitational collapse. But,
maybe if we could add an external squeezing pressure, we could force it to become one. If it did then become a black
hole, I think Earth would continue in its current orbit. But, I think that Earth would no longer be the recipient of any
solar light or heat.

(Must hurry now for train - I propagate much much slower than light speed.)

:oops:
Dan :x :P

----------------------------------------------------------

speed of gravity equals speed of light:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_gravity

gravitational waves indirectly shown to exist --> 1993 Nobel Prize in Physics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_wave

speed of gravity equals speed of light:

http://www.metaresearch.org/home/Viewpoint/Kopeikin.asp

speed of gravity equals speed of light:

https://sites.google.com/site/gravitywavespeed/

[Charles Pegge]

This paper reviews the evidence that gravity as a force must propagate much faster than the speed of light.

http://www.metaresearch.org/cosmology/speed_of_gravity.asp

[danbaron]

[font=courier new]Hi Charles.

My third reference, above, is to an exchange between S.Kopeikin and Tom Van Flandern (the author of your reference).

Here is the summary of their exchange.

SUMMARY: Kopeikin uses the expression "the speed of gravity" for the speed of travel of changes in the gravitational
potential field responsible for light-bending and radar/radio signal delay, also known as the speed of gravitational
waves. No current dispute exists about this speed, which must be the speed of light (c). The Jupiter-quasar appulse may
indeed be the first direct measurement of that speed. By contrast, the appulse can provide no information about the
propagation speed of gravitational force, which is bounded by many experiments to be much faster than light, and by the
most sensitive experiment to exceed 20 billion c. In general relativity, when the solutions to the Einstein equations
(which govern the potential) are converted to equations of motion (which describe gravitational acceleration), the
assumption of infinite speed of gravitational force is implicitly adopted by setting aberration in the gradient of the
potential equal to zero.

It seems that we may both be partially correct. Changes in the gravitational potential field travel at the speed of light,
but the propagation speed of the gravitational force, is apparently, much much faster.

(I have to hurry now.)

Dan

[zlatkoAB]

Dan better stay on this:
Dr. Seuss Explains Computers

If a packet hits a pocket on a socket on a port,
And the bus is interrupted as a very last resort,
And the address of the memory makes your floppy disk abort,
Then the socket packet pocket has an error to report.

If your cursor finds a menu item followed by a dash,
And the double-clicking icon puts your window in the trash,
And your data is corrupted because the index doesn't hash,
Then your situation's hopeless, and your system's gonna crash!

If the label on the cable on the table at your house,
Says the network is connected to the button on your mouse,
But your packets want to tunnel onto another protocol,
That's repeatedly rejected by the printer down the hall ~

And your screen is all distorted by the side effects of gauss,
So your icons in the window are as wavy as a souse,
Then you may as well reboot and go out with a bang,
'Cause as sure as I'm a poet, the sucker's gonna hang!

When the copy of your floppy's getting sloppy on the disk,
And the microcode instructions cause unnecessary risk,
Then you'll have to flash your memory, and you'll want to RAM your ROM.
Quickly turn off the computer and be sure to tell your mom!

[danbaron]

[font=courier new][color=green][i][b]

Aurel Zlatko in the park
At night in Zagreb after dark
There he hears a singing lark -
"With computers you'll make your mark"

Theodor Seuss Geisel was his name
Children's books his claim to fame
Rhymes and drawings filled with fun
He lived til nineteen ninety-one..

[Aurel]

Hi Dan...
I'm glad that you not lost your poet side of personality :D

[danbaron]

[font=courier new]"An Independent Man"

I have a million pounds of gold,
it keeps me from growing old.

Piles and piles of treasure,
all there for my pleasure.

A house with a thousand rooms,
above my estate it looms.

Many miles of land,
in its midst I stand.

A stone wall encircles it all,
one hundred and four feet tall.

A giant locked iron gate,
made of tungsten plate.

Cascading fountains in huge pools,
the bottoms lined with jewels.

Great ornamental gardens,
for them I need no pardons.

Copper statues a whole grove,
among them all I rove.

What occurs is what I say,
I have no need to pray.

I don't even have to eat,
my body is complete.

My body is my friend,
it never has to mend.

In day I have my sun,
it stays until I'm done.

In night I have my moon,
it shines upon my rune.

In sleep I make my dreams,
from whence I birth my schemes.

Anything I can,
an independent man ...

:oops:
Dan :x :P