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Charles Pegge
23-04-2010, 13:12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9ByGQGiVMg

Petr Schreiber
23-04-2010, 14:32
Thanks Charles,

that was great!
I like how he moves during learning, it looks very natural.


Petr

Charles Pegge
23-04-2010, 14:46
More of Asimo's talents: Avoiding mobile obstacles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPoANTKo5kA&NR=1

Michael Clease
23-04-2010, 14:50
I remember seeing this when it was first shown on tv and I was very impressed but I would like to have seen results if the table was cover with a cloth.

@Petr It had movements that seem to mimic a child and the Honda guy did talk about child developement.

How does your robot compare?

Petr Schreiber
23-04-2010, 15:47
I must admit it will take some time before our robots will match ASIMO :) DIM some time AS YEARS.

The oldest still in service, Bender 2, is 4 wheeled robot mostly designed to verify various principles in indoor and outdoor localization. It is also able to avoid dynamic obstacles. It does not predict their movement like ASIMO, on the other side it does not require any camera on top of room, he can decide just on sensors it has on the body.

The other 2, Leela and Bender 3 take more human shape, and are designed to be guides or advertisement "spammers" :D.
I think for practical purposes, the 2 legged configuration is very difficult, even the observations of robotic soccer confirmed this. So even these 2 are wheel based (Leela 2 big + 1 litte, B3 4 wheels). There are algorithms developed for face detection, but not for specific objects. Users can interact with the mentioned robots via touch display on the chest. They can randomly walk in space determined by beacons (no robot will leave your house :)) or they can follow precise pattern.


Petr

danbaron
24-04-2010, 07:14
[font=courier new][size=8pt]Apparently, technology marches unstoppably forward.

It seems robots will continue becoming smarter, both individually and
cooperatively, into the foreseeable future.

Some possible hazards come to my mind -

1)
They replace most human labor, before economic systems adjust to this fact.

2)
They replace human police, soldiers, and guards.
a)
What chance would a human have versus a robot?
b)
What chance would a human have versus an army of nano-robots, or an air force
of flying "insect" robots?
c)
Imagine how much damage one individual could do if he controlled an army of a
million warrior robots. Especially if the army knew no fear, possessed instantaneous
inter-communication, and cooperated like a super-intelligent swarm of bees.

3)
They become sufficiently conscious, such that, they develop emotions, and then
their primary motivation becomes survival.

-------------------

I think that, the more powerful a technology is, the more potential it has, for
both good and bad.

And, does it seem that, new technology keeps moving farther and farther ahead of
humanity's ability to prevent its misuse?

Unfortunately, history shows that the military will pounce upon every new
technology.

(Hopefully, my pessimistic outlook will never materialize. I hold no grudge
against your "good" robots. (Only extinction can stop human creativity, or the
human imagination.))

Dan

Petr Schreiber
24-04-2010, 09:57
Dan,

you are right, as all human inventions, even robots can be misused. They are already in use by many armies of the world. It isn't much discussed in public. We wouldn't like to work on killing machine, so we are working on servant like models. With their low speed (1 to 2m/s at max), they should not pose much danger to environment, even in case of hijack, but you never know how creative the villains can become.


Petr

danbaron
25-04-2010, 07:29
[font=courier new][size=8pt](None of what follows is directed against anyone here. - Dan)

In my opinion, every person in the world with what I would call a military (maybe, authoritarian) temperament or disposition, thinks similarly. They think in
one of two ways. Either, they are concerned only with gaining any advantage they can over their perceived enemies, whom they never run out of. Or, they think
that if they don't use the latest technology against their enemies, then their enemies will use it against them - and ironically, they are correct, because
their enemies are exactly like them (mirror images). A person like this born in country X, will be certain that, the enemy, say, country Y, wants to destroy
country X. But (and the person never realizes this), if he had instead been born in country Y, then he would be just as certain, that country X wanted to
destroy country Y. The result is that the world keeps becoming more and more dangerous. The power of human annihilation becomes concentrated in the hands of
just a few individuals. Imagine, that it becomes possible to build a bomb that would explode Earth, that would scatter pieces of it throughout the solar system.
I think that both countries X and Y would build it, and each would claim that the other forced it to do so. Especially now, with looming energy shortages, and
climate change, I think the potential for destruction on an unbelievable scale, continues to grow. That is the world we live in, in my opinion. A small group of
powerful selfish greedy fearful people, stands in the shadows, insulated from the consequences of its actions, orchestrates wars, and gets millions (or maybe
billions) of other people killed, for its own benefit and/or because of its paranoid convictions. And, when this minority is not orchestrating wars, it is
hoarding more wealth and resources than it could ever use, while billions of people have close to nothing.

Think about what international arms dealers do. When two countries go to war, that is Heaven for them. Of course, they want to maximize their profit. Therefore,
it is best if they sell arms to both sides. And, the more even the war is, and the longer it goes, the better. Ideally, the last two remaining people, one from
each side, will simultaneously kill each other. By then, all of the weapon money is in the bank, no law has been broken, and for these dealers, morality, if any
exists, is not more than the law. And, of course, for them, the highest ideal, far above the law, is unfettered capitalism, whatever its future consequences
are. Let the future worry about the future, yes?

Also, I think the bad guys will cynically use smart university students for their own purposes. They pour money into university research. The students like
science, and want to create something good. The students like to compete with each other for fun, in their areas of research. The technology in a particular
area continues to advance. But, usually, those with money, will only fund research if they perceive that it will help them in some way. For the military, that
means weapons and surveillance systems. For private industry, it means profit, and in the case of robots, the elimination of human jobs. For the monied
interests, talented students are cheap labor. After they have done all of the work in an effort to make something good, the hidden powerful will take what they
have done, and twist it into something bad. Actually, these days, it can be dangerous for a researcher to know too much. Once that certain people somehow gain
access to his knowledge, they may want to prevent the possibility of anyone else accessing it. Dead researchers don't talk, right? Amazingly, sometimes being
too smart, can get you killed!

It seems that always (past, present, and probably in the future), a tiny minority, the dark side of humanity, wearing a public mask of civility, acquires all of
the power, and exerts it from behind the scenes; resulting in misery and death for the vast majority, who mean harm to no one. When this minority removes its
mask in private, the face of the barbarian is revealed.

(As far as robots go, Petr, I like them too, who doesn't?)

Charles Pegge
25-04-2010, 10:21
Hi Dan,

Some of us have already seen this video, but it reflects many of the issues you have raised.

P.W. Singer: Military robots and the future of war
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1pr683SYFk

danbaron
25-04-2010, 22:18
[font=courier new][size=8pt]Hi Charles.

Now I have to admit something that I don't want to admit.

I live pretty far out from civilization.

The result is that, right now, I only have a 56k modem connection.

I have tried watching videos previously, and it takes forever, even for just a video of one minute.

I never see any of the videos that you recommend, although I would like to.

I feel jealous of all of you.

Hopefully, this situation will not go on forever.

Dan

(Now I am looking at the comments associated with the video you just recommended. It's sickening. The extremes of the spectrum of human morality, are almost unbelievable to me.)

Charles Pegge
27-04-2010, 13:19
I'll look out for articles as well as videos Dan.

The world is a much more transparent place now so the foul deeds arising from the misuse of power are clear to see and we have a better collective memory. So I am optimistic for the future of robotics and other technologies.

Charles

danbaron
27-04-2010, 21:53
[font=courier new][size=8pt]I hope you are right, Charles.

I would like to get a fast Internet connection.

On the other hand, I like to read, and I always have.

It seems, that way, I get more information, and it seems to be easier then not to be swayed by the emotional bias of the author.

I think that sight and sound can be very effective tools to manipulate people's emotions.

People seem to me to be so easy to manipulate. I ride the train on most days, and I see that most people have become unable to sit still. They have to always be fidgeting with their audio and video devices. I hear them constantly talking on their phones; in my opinion, having conversations about nothing, "Now, I'm scratching my elbow. The sun is too bright..". I seem to be pessimistic by nature. Various people have independently used the phrase, "too negative", when describing me. But, I wonder how much further into the future, that the majority of people will be able to read and write. And, I wonder the same about doing simple arithmetic.

We still use keyboards to interact with our computers. I bet that, in ten years, people will look at a keyboard like a Stone Age tool. So, then, reading and writing may head for extinction. Similarly, concerning arithmetic. Why learn how much 2 + 2 is, when you can ask a machine? I can see a future in which most people become like the Eloi, of, H.G.Wells', The Time Machine. (And, our real world equivalent to the Morlocks, feeds on them.)

I agree that the world has become much more transparent. I hope it stays that way. The puppet masters love to be able to deceive the people. Then, they have nothing to fear. I think that is why they always misdirect public anger and frustration. They direct the people into hating a vulnerable group that is convenient to use as a scapegoat. Then, the people don't realize that the puppet masters are the real source of their misery. If and when the people do realize the truth, it makes life much more difficult for the manipulators. They may no longer be physically safe. That is when the hammer comes down. If the people cannot be controlled by deception, then they must be controlled by plainly visible force. That would include monitoring, controlling, and limiting the exchange of information. I don't think the power elite likes the current freedom on the Internet. I think that they are already trying to gain control of the Internet, and they will continue to do so. I think that the more their deeds are exposed, the angrier they become, and the more force they will use in fighting back.

Now, I have to hurry to catch the train, and hear more mindless talking. I swear that some people need constant conversation, in order to reassure themselves of their own existence.

Dan

kryton9
28-04-2010, 18:22
I was blown away by the speed and abilities of this running asimo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3C5sc8b3xM&feature=related

I am so glad the Japaneses are fascinated by robots, they are bringing the future here quicker with their passion.

Here is the crummy robot that just came out of the US, no comparison to asimo, I thought this was a joke at first:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1Dz5mFpVxA