View Full Version : Type 0,1,2,3 Civilisations
Charles Pegge
31-12-2009, 18:19
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ftF8sXzoWk&feature=related
Charles, thanks for the link.
I can't disagree with what he says, but also I am not sure I want to meet his requirements for what is necessary to become a type 1.
I love sci-fi and all the shows and movies, but I always felt uneasy with The Federation in Star Trek. Having a benevolent dictator is probably the best type of government to live in. You get the most done without bureaucracy in the quickest manner and having a benevolent leader the society is happy, but you give up your rights to make decisions for yourself. Then what happens when the Dictator is no longer a good guy?
I think living free with our rights intact in a chaotic system is better, although things move slower and progress might take a few steps back... it is the safer long term route.
If you noticed... the galactic civilization was something like that represented by a Star Wars Empire. And we know how the empire turned out.
I hope we don't have to turn into the Fascist State to reach the next stages. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
Also in the first paragraph of the definition, I never understood the fact that Fascism was considered right wing... if you read the description it is more left wing in reality?
I guess what I am saying is, I won't disagree with him that being a Fascist World would probably lead to a move to a type 1 civilization quicker, but I don't think it is necessary to move on to the next stages. I don't want to live in a Star Trek Federation which then evolves into a Star Wars Empire.
I would rather live in the mess and grit of a Babylon 5 type future but with our freedoms and love for it intact!
Charles Pegge
06-01-2010, 22:58
Well I would take Star Trek and Star Wars, like many other science fiction epics, as being allegorical. Often a snapshot of the contemporary mind set of the time at which they were written. I don't think we will be returning to dictatorship as a model of good governance. As we see with the internet - decentralised systems work very effectively and are fortunately beyond the comprehension of most tyrants.
LanceGary
07-01-2010, 00:54
Well I would take Star Trek and Star Wars, like many other science fiction epics, as being allegorical. Often a snapshot of the contemporary mind set of the time at which they were written. I don't think we will be returning to dictatorship as a model of good governance. As we see with the internet - decentralised systems work very effectively and are fortunately beyond the comprehension of most tyrants.
Hitler used a system of community spies (at least one in every block) that was effective and decentralized. Tyrannies are more effective and worse when the majority of people support them and enforce them in a decentralized way. Indeed all government, in the end, is by consent. For if a dictator orders X but his officials and police don't act, the dictator is helpless. I think that is the meaning of the story of the emperor and his new clothes - we consent to saying the emperor has beautiful clothes even when he is naked. But the same illusion is the basis of all society. Think money. Surely money is just a bit of paper but for our willing consent to treat it as a store of value (a consent that is exposed as a social illusion when economies come crashing down, or when hyper inflation strikes). In truth both democracy and dictatorship are government by consent, and both work through the decentralized manufacture of consent. There is therefore nothing to stop either system of government appearing in Type 1, 2 or 3 civilizations. Taku is wrong in saying that Type 2 civilizations cannot be destroyed - they can be destroyed in the same way as any government or society can be destroyed. Consent to being governed can be withdrawn. For example think of how the Russian government collapsed in 1919 or again in 1989. Think how a vast Mayan civilization just became a forest. Power and government is an illusion based on the manufacture of consent and that will be true no matter how large the civilization becomes.
Lance
I think the move to type 2 and 3 will come quickly with free energy and room temperature super conductivity. I think zero point energy is probably being kept secret from us by the governments.
I also saw a corporate video on you tube where a company came up with a polymer that made super conductivity possible at room temperature and it looked old, like in the late 80's or early 90's.
Yet we don't hear of this company, so they probably got classified into black government programs.
A lot of the push around the world for disclosure is not only to get the truth out, but to bring these incredible technologies out for the benefit and incredible step forward for mankind.
Will it happen, not if the governments and energy cartels have anything to do with it? But with so many top level people speaking out and the fact that it all points to these sort of technologies being kept secret, perhaps as you say, if people act and pressure enough and say enough is enough.. it would be awesome.
I heard a very clever idea. Someone said, why not fund a commercial during the Super Bowl for disclosure. With Billions of viewers world wide, I think that could be something really effective. So this kind of new thinking to get the truth is refreshing and exciting!